[Bioconversion] Re: Safety of Ethanol Fuel

Mon Apr 24 23:43:34 EDT 2006

Try knocking back a shot of it once, like lab ethanol or even 190
proof Everclear. No, it's not like methanol, or ever gasoline, but
it's not the best thing to pour on your skin, either. And, if it's
E85, it's worse yet.

On 4/24/06, Harry Stokes <hstokes at blazenet.net> wrote:
> In response to Harmon's comments below, ethanol is actually one of the
> safest of liquid fuels.  Please consult the Materials Safety Data Sheet for
> ethanol.  It is very safe to handle.
>
> It should be properly denatured to prevent diversion to food or beverage
> use.  This is very easy and cheap to do, and very effective.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Harry Stokes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:43 PM
> To: Stoves-List; bioconversion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Re: ethanol-only fuel for cars & stoves - demo house
> -Philip Anderson
>
>     Firstly, can we migrate this discussion to the bioconversion list
> where it rightly belongs, rather than stoves? Unless you actually want
> to confine the discussion to the design of an ethanol burning stove,
> that is.
>     Secondly, I myself would never consider buying a ethanol-hybrid
> vehicle. A diesel-hybrid, yes, absolutely, I'd love one. Diesels are
> far more economical and efficient than any spark engine will ever be,
> last a lot longer, and are just so much simpler and nicer to work on.
> Veggie oil as a fuel is also just so less problematic than ethanol. I
> can wash my hands in veggie oil, even petro diesel, with no
> consequence -- try that with gasoline or ethanol or a blend of the
> two, and you've got serious problems.
>     Think about it, eh? Ethanol is a very addicting drug which will
> *always* be heavily regulated. And rightly so. It is, in fact, a much
> more dangerous drug than heroin, much more harmful to the body and
> just as addicting for all practical purposes. You will never, in this
> world, see pure ethanol available as a fuel, and, for that matter, you
> can't use 100% ethanol  as a vehicle fuel anyway, at least not in
> North America. Brazil is warm enough, maybe they don' t have the
> problem, but in most of the US, during the cold months if you try to
> run 100% ethanol in an engine, you will find it very difficult to
> start a cold engine, due to ethanol's propensity to absorb water,
> which then precipitates out on the cold cylinder walls and quenches
> combustion. That's why they have E85, the lowest mixture that will
> actually start.
>     And frankly, when you start talking about "plug-in" hybrids --
> well, only in Amerika, eh? You say "only" $24,000 for solar cells to
> feed that hybrid? Only in obese, gluttonous Amerika would that sound
> reasonable.
>
>     But please, if you want to continue this conversation, let's do so
> in bioconversions.
>
>
> On 4/24/06, Philip Anderson <usandersons at adelphia.net> wrote:
> > Ethanol as cook fuel in US demo house:
> >
> > A belated comment on the discussion about burning an ethanol-petroleum
> fuel mixture in stoves:   When I proposed dropping home-ethanol production
> for cooking fuel, in favor of purchasing auto-fuel ethanol in the future, I
> assumed that would be only ethanol, not a petroleum mixture like E-85.
> >
> > I assumed that pure ethanol will one day be mass-produced for car fuel,
> and so it would be widely, cheaply available to fuel home cookstoves.   It
> may interest you Stovers who haven't heard that PROVEN technology of the
> PHEV, "plug-in hybrid electric vehicle" (versus just "hybrid" vehicles)
> which greatly reduces the need for combustion fuel, may enable cellulosic
> ethanol to replace petroleum fuel for PHEVs in the near future.
> >
> > The amount of ethanol needed (or any combustion fuel) for PHEV's will be
> very little, due to increased, purely electrical operation from plug-in
> charging, and so the scale of ethanol production needed to power the
> combustion side of the PHEV may be do-able, using cellulosic ethanol.  This
> is per Prof Andrew Frank, Univ of California - Davis, where plug-in hybrid
> technology has been refined and proven:
> >
> > "The reality today is that the car companies have been focused on
> ever-larger trucks and vehicles that get lower and lower fuel economy but do
> meet stricter emission standards. They are however emitting more CO2. The
> PHEV can reverse these trends since the vehicles that we have constructed (!
> 8 vehicles built & tested tat UC-Davis) show not only zero emission
> operation on a daily basis but when using gasoline only, the fuel economy is
> more than double the conventional car. If a vehicle travels 40 miles a day
> commuting to and from work and the vehicle travels 15,000 miles a year the
> effective gasoline mileage for a PHEV is over 250 miles a gallon. Or
> compared to conventional car, the PHEV will use about 1/10th the liquid
> fuel. This fact makes bio-fuels such as ethanol from cellulostic materials
> and biodiesel practical since we can supply 1/10th of our current oil energy
> use from croplands and waste agricultural products. In addition, as
> batteries improve, the electric range of the PHEV can increase reducing the
> need for liquid fuel further. "    from Renewable Energy Access . com
> website: http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44254
> >
> > So maybe ethanol will be widely available and affordable for both PHEVs
> and ethanol cookstoves in the home?  If one-season harvest crops, like
> switchgrass are used for the ethanol, then that's sustainable and secure
> combustion fuel for personal transportation and cooking.
> >
> > Neat, huh?  Add to this sustainable combustion fuel source, a clean and
> sustainable electric fuel source --charging from photovoltaic panels-- and
> we have a completely sustainably fueled PHEV or EV.  The PV system needed to
> charge the batteries of a PHEV for 289 miles weekly use (41 miles daily
> use), independent of the hybrid's in-motion charging, is a 4600* watt array,
> which costs $24,000+  (*250 watt-hours per mile, given 3.92 days of sunshine
> per week).
> >
> > This $24,000+ PV price-tag is not really a discouraging price because the
> array would pay for itself in 12-14 years and then provide free
> transportation-electricity for another 35+ years, which save $2,210 in
> gasoline costs annually.  This is all presuming $5 /gallon, which the
> Europeans are already paying and which we may pay before too long as the
> real price of peak-oil fuel.  Costs per gallon will likely go up higher than
> $5 /gallon over the 50+ year lifetime of the PV array.
> >
> > Anyway, this is all a good case for ethanol fuel, for stoves and cars, if
> it can be produced sustainably and cost effectively, such as via the
> cellulosic scenario.
> >
> >
> > Philip Anderson      US Andersons @ Adelphia.net
> >
> > mobile:   301 335-6051
> >   home:   301 865-3642
> >     fax:   301 865-3642
> >
> > 11801 Pine Ct
> > Monrovia MD 21770   USA
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> >
>
>
> --
> Harmon Seaver
>
>
>

--
Harmon Seaver