[Bioconversion] personal and mass transportation in the post-carbon
era - the role of biofuels
Philip Anderson
usandersons at adelphia.net
Tue Apr 25 10:58:19 EDT 2006
Bioconversioneers,
The following is a discussion which began on the combustion stoves list but which more broadly relates to biogas issues. If you care to join in, all the better.
I am new (and a novice) to this bioconversion list & the stoves list, Philip Anderson, and my interest is the philosophy and design of durable life support systems and benign life style at the personal, domestic and community levels, which ultimately defines the civilization.
I am here for your views on the optimal paradigm for the post-carbon era, to aid my design of a demonstration home which addresses ways of life support and life style in partnership with Nature and in harmony with the "heart" --read that "what our higher instinct tells us is a better way to live, interact with each other and Nature, for the sake of happiness of all".
The demonstration home will present one scenario at the level of shelter and private life, and to some extent community life and the civilization which supports this life, for meeting the interrelated challenges we are now facing in climate warming, the biosphere, energy, agriculture, economics, culture, and spirituality --more simply: if we are to recreate our lives, our homes, our life styles, our communities at this critical time, drawing on the best of the past and the truth we can discern in our hearts, what would we create?
The current discussion is about the use of biofuel for the combustion aspect of plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicles (PHEVs), with ethanol currently in the spotlight because it may be the fuel for cooking in the home and so it should be readily available, which would be the case if it were a common fuel for personal transportation via PHEVs. But there may be some hazards in using auto-ethanol, which is a biofuel-petroleum mix (E85), in cooking stoves.
My questions now:
1. is ethanol a prime candidate for personal transportation fuel in the post-carbon era, along with electricity, using PHEVs as described in message 1 below which cites Professor Alfonso Frank, U of Calif - Davis, who proposes that PHEVs will need so little combustion fuel that biofuels like cellulosic ethanol would be feasible to power our cars.
2. Harmon Seaver points out that the gasoline in E85 is needed to assure engine starting in cold weather. Is it likely that another biofuel could take the place of the gasoline portion, or that the cold-weather problem can be addressed by technology so that ethanol only might work?
In any case, if ethanol is widely used then it could also be widely available for cooking without the petrolueum additive.
(thank you for your previous comments, Harmon and Harry).
Philip Anderson US Andersons @ Adelphia.net
mobile: 301 335-6051
home: 301 865-3642
fax: 301 865-3642
11801 Pine Ct
Monrovia MD 21770 USA
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:32:58 -0400
From: "Harry Stokes" <hstokes at blazenet.net>
Subject: [Stoves] Safety of Ethanol Fuel
To: "'Harmon Seaver'" <hseaver at gmail.com>, "'Stoves-List'"
<stoves at listserv.repp.org>, <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID: <E1FYDNA-00020r-00 at pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In response to Harmon's comments below, ethanol is actually one of the
safest of liquid fuels. Please consult the Materials Safety Data Sheet for
ethanol. It is very safe to handle.
It should be properly denatured to prevent diversion to food or beverage
use. This is very easy and cheap to do, and very effective.
Best wishes,
Harry Stokes
Message 2:
-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:43 PM
To: Stoves-List; bioconversion at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Re: ethanol-only fuel for cars & stoves - demo house
-Philip Anderson
Firstly, can we migrate this discussion to the bioconversion list
where it rightly belongs, rather than stoves? Unless you actually want
to confine the discussion to the design of an ethanol burning stove,
that is.
Secondly, I myself would never consider buying a ethanol-hybrid
vehicle. A diesel-hybrid, yes, absolutely, I'd love one. Diesels are
far more economical and efficient than any spark engine will ever be,
last a lot longer, and are just so much simpler and nicer to work on.
Veggie oil as a fuel is also just so less problematic than ethanol. I
can wash my hands in veggie oil, even petro diesel, with no
consequence -- try that with gasoline or ethanol or a blend of the
two, and you've got serious problems.
Think about it, eh? Ethanol is a very addicting drug which will
*always* be heavily regulated. And rightly so. It is, in fact, a much
more dangerous drug than heroin, much more harmful to the body and
just as addicting for all practical purposes. You will never, in this
world, see pure ethanol available as a fuel, and, for that matter, you
can't use 100% ethanol as a vehicle fuel anyway, at least not in
North America. Brazil is warm enough, maybe they don' t have the
problem, but in most of the US, during the cold months if you try to
run 100% ethanol in an engine, you will find it very difficult to
start a cold engine, due to ethanol's propensity to absorb water,
which then precipitates out on the cold cylinder walls and quenches
combustion. That's why they have E85, the lowest mixture that will
actually start.
And frankly, when you start talking about "plug-in" hybrids --
well, only in Amerika, eh? You say "only" $24,000 for solar cells to
feed that hybrid? Only in obese, gluttonous Amerika would that sound
reasonable.
But please, if you want to continue this conversation, let's do so
in bioconversions.
message 1:
On 4/24/06, Philip Anderson <usandersons at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Ethanol as cook fuel in US demo house:
>
> A belated comment on the discussion about burning an ethanol-petroleum
fuel mixture in stoves: When I proposed dropping home-ethanol production
for cooking fuel, in favor of purchasing auto-fuel ethanol in the future, I
assumed that would be only ethanol, not a petroleum mixture like E-85.
>
> I assumed that pure ethanol will one day be mass-produced for car fuel,
and so it would be widely, cheaply available to fuel home cookstoves. It
may interest you Stovers who haven't heard that PROVEN technology of the
PHEV, "plug-in hybrid electric vehicle" (versus just "hybrid" vehicles)
which greatly reduces the need for combustion fuel, may enable cellulosic
ethanol to replace petroleum fuel for PHEVs in the near future.
>
> The amount of ethanol needed (or any combustion fuel) for PHEV's will be
very little, due to increased, purely electrical operation from plug-in
charging, and so the scale of ethanol production needed to power the
combustion side of the PHEV may be do-able, using cellulosic ethanol. This
is per Prof Andrew Frank, Univ of California - Davis, where plug-in hybrid
technology has been refined and proven:
>
> "The reality today is that the car companies have been focused on
ever-larger trucks and vehicles that get lower and lower fuel economy but do
meet stricter emission standards. They are however emitting more CO2. The
PHEV can reverse these trends since the vehicles that we have constructed (!
8 vehicles built & tested tat UC-Davis) show not only zero emission
operation on a daily basis but when using gasoline only, the fuel economy is
more than double the conventional car. If a vehicle travels 40 miles a day
commuting to and from work and the vehicle travels 15,000 miles a year the
effective gasoline mileage for a PHEV is over 250 miles a gallon. Or
compared to conventional car, the PHEV will use about 1/10th the liquid
fuel. This fact makes bio-fuels such as ethanol from cellulostic materials
and biodiesel practical since we can supply 1/10th of our current oil energy
use from croplands and waste agricultural products. In addition, as
batteries improve, the electric range of the PHEV can increase reducing the
need for liquid fuel further. " from Renewable Energy Access . com
website: http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44254
>
> So maybe ethanol will be widely available and affordable for both PHEVs
and ethanol cookstoves in the home? If one-season harvest crops, like
switchgrass are used for the ethanol, then that's sustainable and secure
combustion fuel for personal transportation and cooking.
>
> Neat, huh? Add to this sustainable combustion fuel source, a clean and
sustainable electric fuel source --charging from photovoltaic panels-- and
we have a completely sustainably fueled PHEV or EV. The PV system needed to
charge the batteries of a PHEV for 289 miles weekly use (41 miles daily
use), independent of the hybrid's in-motion charging, is a 4600* watt array,
which costs $24,000+ (*250 watt-hours per mile, given 3.92 days of sunshine
per week).
>
> This $24,000+ PV price-tag is not really a discouraging price because the
array would pay for itself in 12-14 years and then provide free
transportation-electricity for another 35+ years, which save $2,210 in
gasoline costs annually. This is all presuming $5 /gallon, which the
Europeans are already paying and which we may pay before too long as the
real price of peak-oil fuel. Costs per gallon will likely go up higher than
$5 /gallon over the 50+ year lifetime of the PV array.
>
> Anyway, this is all a good case for ethanol fuel, for stoves and cars, if
it can be produced sustainably and cost effectively, such as via the
cellulosic scenario.
>
>
> Philip Anderson US Andersons @ Adelphia.net
>
> mobile: 301 335-6051
> home: 301 865-3642
> fax: 301 865-3642
>
> 11801 Pine Ct
> Monrovia MD 21770 USA
Philip Anderson US Andersons @ Adelphia.net
mobile: 301 335-6051
home: 301 865-3642
fax: 301 865-3642
11801 Pine Ct
Monrovia MD 21770 USA
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