[Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants toCutOil's Role

[Geoff Thomas]

Hi all, as the person assaulted by Mike, I would like to assure you that it did not worry me, - I
am so different from being a fascist or a blow hard it was simply irrelevant, - he might as well
have called me a penguin chopper for example, I have neither seen a live penguin nor could
envision chopping one if I did, so the accusation would be irrelevant, so it is here.
Main problem is we are all none the wiser as to the reason for the unfortunate burst of
vituperation, - from that point of view it is not a good form of communication.

However to hark back to the beginning of this thread and the discussion on catails etc, I wonder
has anyone heard of work done with the Sago palm metroxylon, a tree that grows in warm wet areas
and produces 6.7–11.1 t/ac of pure starch, then almost twice as much again woody fibrous
material?
- Would it be best to make alcohol out of the starch and digest the rest? or simply digest the lot?
Cheers,
Geoff Thomas.

> Horst,
>
> I'm sorry you experienced this indignity and I'm sure all the
> bioconversioneers heartily agree with you, and I think Mike will too when he
> steps back from the situation.
>
> I think maybe Mike's passionate engagement of the issue, and the usual
> frustration of human life, "let the dog off the leash" without thinking.
> Some of us ride a strong horse, which isn't easy.  Mike's strong will would
> indeed have been appropriate and brave and positive in opposing the rise of
> fascism all over the world in the last century, but even then "strong but
> civil" assertion would have been the appropriate first step.  Inflamitory
> words lead to blows (war).  I'll bet Mike would have fought that great
> ignorance bravely, without regard for his life --really.  And who knows, if
> there is such a thing as reincarnation, he may have done just that! --which
> would also help explain this slip of hurtful indiscretion, a carryover from
> a distant past, still strong, but applied here in error.
>
> I appreciate your responses to my past queries on methane and I'm delighted
> you are in the group.  You too, Mike.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Philip Anderson
> Sustainable Living Design
>
>
> Life support & life style in partnership
>  with Nature and in harmony with the heart
>
> 11801 Pine Court
> Monrovia, MD 21770-8802   USA
>
> Phone (301) 335-6051
> Fax (301) 865-3642
>
>   solarphil at comcast.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Horst Doelle
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:05 AM
> To: Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals
> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to
> CutOil's Role
>
> Mike,
>
> I find your comment very offensive and unnecessary. I believe you are also
> living in a democracy.
> Maybe you do not know what a Fascist Blowhard is, but it is a terminology
> one can do without in an exchange of opinions.
> Please be rational in your discussions and not abusive.
>
> Thank you
> Horst
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Morin" <mikemorin at earthlink.net>
> To: "Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals"
> <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to
> CutOil's Role
>
>
>> Advanced Wind Technologies?
>>
>> It's Fascist Blowhards like you
>> that obfuscate and help ruin any chance
>> of putting forth and realizing the changes
>> necessary.
>>
>>
>> Workin' for peace and cooperation,
>>
>> Mike Morin
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Geoff Thomas" <wind at iig.com.au>
>> To: "Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals"
>> <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to Cut
>> Oil's Role
>>
>>
>>> Hi all, ranting is fine, but it has to be correct ranting.
>>> In 2005, according to a study done by the Australian CSIRO. a
>>> conservative
>>> scientific research
>>> organisation, the human race managed to throw 8 billion tons of carbon
>>> dioxide into the
>>> atmosphere, 2 billion tons more than 1995, - seems pretty grim eh, but in
>>> context, the natural
>>> world, the world of the plant kingdom, cycles 100 billion tons between
>>> the
>>> atmosphere and the
>>> land vegetation.
>>> Every Year.
>>> Now this is the natural cycle, plants grow, taking carbon dioxide from
>>> the
>>> atmosphere, turning
>>> into cellulose erc, then die or lose leaves and that material falls on to
>>> the ground, breaks down
>>> into compost/mulch, is eventually eaten by worms or bacteria and the
>>> carbon dioxide returns to
>>> the atmosphere, 100 billion tons per year.
>>> By diverting  some of that carbon through gasifiers, wood stoves, methane
>>> digesters, charcoal
>>> fuel cells, various fermentation techniques and others I may not know of
>>> in such a way as to save
>>> electricity generated by fossil fuels, we reduce that 8 billion tons
>>> while
>>> not significantly
>>> interfering with the natural cycle.
>>> Of course any re-newable energy generated also helps greatly ( for
>>> example
>>> the wind industry
>>> currently generates more than 1% of the worlds elctricity, and is
>>> expanding at 30% per year, - if
>>> you do the figures, cumulative 30%, in 15 years wind energy alone will be
>>> generating all the
>>> current world electricity requirement) as does conserving energy and
>>> avoiding usage such as
>>> wasting fossil fuels on trivia, - we need to make every front a winner!
>>> However the point is that there is 100 billion tons going up every year,
>>> a
>>> lot to work with, and
>>> much woody mass can be heated to give off it's flammable gases, used to
>>> provide energy, and the
>>> rest of that mass turned into charcoal which is far more effective than
>>> mulch or compost at
>>> helping plants grow, and that charcoal will last at least 7000 years in
>>> the soil, - compost in
>>> the soil here in far north Queensland lasts a year if you are lucky.
>>> With the help of nature and our creative faculties we have the tools to
>>> turn around global
>>> warming and indeed even claw back out of the atmosphere the extra 240
>>> billion tons currently
>>> "surplus to requirements'  we might say.
>>> 100 bilion tons is a hell of a weapon, 6.5 billion aware and caring human
>>> beings is a hell of a
>>> weapon wielder, that is all we need.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Geoff Thomas.
>>> Advanced Wind Technologies.
>>> Australia
>>>
>>>> G'day All,
>>>>
>>>> Biomass can't replace existing energy use (well, not with growing food
>>>> as well, let alone conservation of forests etc!) so how is it going to
>>>> provide the extra energy needed for all these conversions?
>>>>
>>>> Any conversion of energy is inefficient, so wastes our precious
>>>> bioenergy - we just have to think of things other than driving cars
>>>> everywhere, let alone flying! We have been far too inefficient with past
>>>> "conversions" and wasted too much fossil fuel on trivia.
>>>>
>>>> Gaseous fuels are best suited to stationary applications and any liquid
>>>> fuel will be needed for "emergency" uses.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's enough ranting for now,
>>>> HOOROO
>>>>
>>>> Dick Glick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello --
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time for renewable natural gas produced from biomass -- it can't
>>>>> be
>>>>> done inexpensively --
>>>>> that is to convert methane to diesel fuel for planes and vehicles, but
>>>>> the technology is long
>>>>> known -- the German's used a version of the technology -- first in WW I
>>>>> than WW II -- to
>>>>> produce liquid fuels -- from coal.