[Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wantsto CutOil's Role

Tue Jun 19 20:44:01 CDT 2007

Thanks for all the replies in regard to my protest. I just want to say that 
I love open discussion , but we all should realise that we have different 
opinions and should accept each others opinion. This is what discussions and 
science are all about.
Only different opinions bring biotechnology forward, and one does not need 
to get offensive if one disagrees with somebody else,

Lets forget the occasion and lets enjoy the open discussions as we have in 
the past.
Horst
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philip Anderson" <solarphil at comcast.net>
To: "'Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals'" 
<bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wantsto CutOil's 
Role

> Horst,
>
> I'm sorry you experienced this indignity and I'm sure all the
> bioconversioneers heartily agree with you, and I think Mike will too when 
> he
> steps back from the situation.
>
> I think maybe Mike's passionate engagement of the issue, and the usual
> frustration of human life, "let the dog off the leash" without thinking.
> Some of us ride a strong horse, which isn't easy.  Mike's strong will 
> would
> indeed have been appropriate and brave and positive in opposing the rise 
> of
> fascism all over the world in the last century, but even then "strong but
> civil" assertion would have been the appropriate first step.  Inflamitory
> words lead to blows (war).  I'll bet Mike would have fought that great
> ignorance bravely, without regard for his life --really.  And who knows, 
> if
> there is such a thing as reincarnation, he may have done just 
> that! --which
> would also help explain this slip of hurtful indiscretion, a carryover 
> from
> a distant past, still strong, but applied here in error.
>
> I appreciate your responses to my past queries on methane and I'm 
> delighted
> you are in the group.  You too, Mike.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Philip Anderson
> Sustainable Living Design
>
>
> Life support & life style in partnership
> with Nature and in harmony with the heart
>
> 11801 Pine Court
> Monrovia, MD 21770-8802   USA
>
> Phone (301) 335-6051
> Fax (301) 865-3642
>
>  solarphil at comcast.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Horst Doelle
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:05 AM
> To: Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals
> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to
> CutOil's Role
>
> Mike,
>
> I find your comment very offensive and unnecessary. I believe you are also
> living in a democracy.
> Maybe you do not know what a Fascist Blowhard is, but it is a terminology
> one can do without in an exchange of opinions.
> Please be rational in your discussions and not abusive.
>
> Thank you
> Horst
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Morin" <mikemorin at earthlink.net>
> To: "Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals"
> <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to
> CutOil's Role
>
>
>> Advanced Wind Technologies?
>>
>> It's Fascist Blowhards like you
>> that obfuscate and help ruin any chance
>> of putting forth and realizing the changes
>> necessary.
>>
>>
>> Workin' for peace and cooperation,
>>
>> Mike Morin
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Geoff Thomas" <wind at iig.com.au>
>> To: "Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals"
>> <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Bioconversion] Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to Cut
>> Oil's Role
>>
>>
>>> Hi all, ranting is fine, but it has to be correct ranting.
>>> In 2005, according to a study done by the Australian CSIRO. a
>>> conservative
>>> scientific research
>>> organisation, the human race managed to throw 8 billion tons of carbon
>>> dioxide into the
>>> atmosphere, 2 billion tons more than 1995, - seems pretty grim eh, but 
>>> in
>>> context, the natural
>>> world, the world of the plant kingdom, cycles 100 billion tons between
>>> the
>>> atmosphere and the
>>> land vegetation.
>>> Every Year.
>>> Now this is the natural cycle, plants grow, taking carbon dioxide from
>>> the
>>> atmosphere, turning
>>> into cellulose erc, then die or lose leaves and that material falls on 
>>> to
>>> the ground, breaks down
>>> into compost/mulch, is eventually eaten by worms or bacteria and the
>>> carbon dioxide returns to
>>> the atmosphere, 100 billion tons per year.
>>> By diverting  some of that carbon through gasifiers, wood stoves, 
>>> methane
>>> digesters, charcoal
>>> fuel cells, various fermentation techniques and others I may not know of
>>> in such a way as to save
>>> electricity generated by fossil fuels, we reduce that 8 billion tons
>>> while
>>> not significantly
>>> interfering with the natural cycle.
>>> Of course any re-newable energy generated also helps greatly ( for
>>> example
>>> the wind industry
>>> currently generates more than 1% of the worlds elctricity, and is
>>> expanding at 30% per year, - if
>>> you do the figures, cumulative 30%, in 15 years wind energy alone will 
>>> be
>>> generating all the
>>> current world electricity requirement) as does conserving energy and
>>> avoiding usage such as
>>> wasting fossil fuels on trivia, - we need to make every front a winner!
>>> However the point is that there is 100 billion tons going up every year,
>>> a
>>> lot to work with, and
>>> much woody mass can be heated to give off it's flammable gases, used to
>>> provide energy, and the
>>> rest of that mass turned into charcoal which is far more effective than
>>> mulch or compost at
>>> helping plants grow, and that charcoal will last at least 7000 years in
>>> the soil, - compost in
>>> the soil here in far north Queensland lasts a year if you are lucky.
>>> With the help of nature and our creative faculties we have the tools to
>>> turn around global
>>> warming and indeed even claw back out of the atmosphere the extra 240
>>> billion tons currently
>>> "surplus to requirements'  we might say.
>>> 100 bilion tons is a hell of a weapon, 6.5 billion aware and caring 
>>> human
>>> beings is a hell of a
>>> weapon wielder, that is all we need.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Geoff Thomas.
>>> Advanced Wind Technologies.
>>> Australia
>>>
>>>> G'day All,
>>>>
>>>> Biomass can't replace existing energy use (well, not with growing food
>>>> as well, let alone conservation of forests etc!) so how is it going to
>>>> provide the extra energy needed for all these conversions?
>>>>
>>>> Any conversion of energy is inefficient, so wastes our precious
>>>> bioenergy - we just have to think of things other than driving cars
>>>> everywhere, let alone flying! We have been far too inefficient with 
>>>> past
>>>> "conversions" and wasted too much fossil fuel on trivia.
>>>>
>>>> Gaseous fuels are best suited to stationary applications and any liquid
>>>> fuel will be needed for "emergency" uses.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's enough ranting for now,
>>>> HOOROO
>>>>
>>>> Dick Glick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello --
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time for renewable natural gas produced from biomass -- it can't
>>>>> be
>>>>> done inexpensively --
>>>>> that is to convert methane to diesel fuel for planes and vehicles, but
>>>>> the technology is long
>>>>> known -- the German's used a version of the technology -- first in WW 
>>>>> I
>>>>> than WW II -- to
>>>>> produce liquid fuels -- from coal.
>>>>>
>>>> SNIP
>>>> --
>>>> Mr. Paul Harris
>>>> Room G8, Leske Building
>>>> Faculty of Sciences,
>>>> The  University of Adelaide, Roseworthy Campus, AUSTRALIA 5371
>>>> Ph    : +61 8 8303 7880
>>>> Fax   : +61 8 8303 7979
>>>> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
>>>> I now use "MailGuard" - if you do not get a reply please make contact
>>>> again (by fax?)
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
>>>> Member IOBB http://www.iobbnet.org/drupal/
>>>>
>>>> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
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