[Bioconversion] Global Warming (was Conserve -- Even the Air Force Wants to Cut Oil's Role)

[Harmon Seaver]

   Don't get me wrong -- I don't think we ought to not do anything.
Seeing to one's personal survival, trying to establish as much bioenergy
production as possible as soon as possible -- anything along those lines
is productive and needful.
   But arguing about global warming and the causes? Or lecturing people
to stop going to energy fairs or green festivals because they're using
too much fuel? Well....


Philip Anderson wrote:
> Regarding the discussion of global warming, peak oil, biosphere collapse,
> especially Harmon's last, you might find the following links and books
> beneficial. I think these are some of our top experts and luminaries on the
> subject of the great paradigm shift from the carbon-energy world to the
> post-carbon world.
> 
> No one knows specifically what will happen in Nature because the situation
> we have created is unprecedented.  WE may have already reached "Earth's
> tipping point".  But I'm finding in my research and I sense in my heart,
> that there's a lot we can do and some wonderful opportunity to create a
> better world than ever before.  That new world may have a pleasant or
> unpleasant birth -depends on what we do or don't do, and Nature's unknowns.
> But one hopeful theme which I read and feel consistently:  we continue to
> write our destiny every day, and Nature is standing beside us, writing as
> she sees us write.  And I wonder if there is not another ingredient in the
> recipe that could come into play --mercy.  In any case, why not try to do
> the best we can, for all the children of the future, and for Nature, our
> exquisite life-support system and innocent companion?  It'll be a lot more
> fun than despair and morbidity, and will help us fulfill our natural role as
> stewards of the Earth life.
> 
> Phil
> 
> http://globalpublicmedia.com/  (audio and videos conversations)
> 
> http://www.peakmoment.tv/conversations/  (video conversations)
> 
> http://www.postcarbon.org/outposts   (community change to mitigate effects
> of global warming & peak oil)
> 
> http://www.nrdc.org/  (one of the best NGOs working to "  ")
> 
> http://www.worldwatch.org/ ( " " )
> 
> http://www.earth-policy.org/ ( " " )
> 
> 
> DVD:  "Crude Impact",  "The Great Turning"
> 
> Books:  
> 
> The Party's Over - Heinberg
> 
> Plan B 2.0  - Lester Brown
> 
> The Long Emergency  - Kunstler
> 
> Power Down  - Heinberg (short and to the point, but less background the
> above books)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philip Anderson
> Sustainable Living Design
> 
>     
> Life support & life style in partnership
>  with Nature and in harmony with the heart
> 
> 11801 Pine Court
> Monrovia, MD 21770-8802   USA     
> 
> Phone (301) 335-6051
> Fax (301) 865-3642
> 
>   solarphil at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:30 PM
> To: Discussion of biological conversion to fuels and chemicals
> Subject: [Bioconversion] Global Warming (was Conserve -- Even the Air Force
> Wants to Cut Oil's Role)
> 
>    Myself, I find the whole discussion/controvery/whathaveyou re global
> warming to be quite irrelevant at this point. Anyone who thinks that
> very significant warming isn't happening is either not paying attention
> or pretty much braindead. Whether it's man-made or not is pretty much
> irrelevant also, because there is very, very little that anyone could do
> at this point to reverse course in a significant enough way to matter
> before the glaciers were all melted.
>     If every car in the world were turned off permanently today, and
> every powerplant and factory smokestack and every household boiler --
> would that even stop the process at this point? Slow it down a little
> maybe? Is that going to happen? Is it possible to even shutdown 1/3 ??
> Or even 10%???
>    Not likely.
>      And is the developed world going to say to China and India and all
> the rest who are all now buying cars, etc --"We've got ours but you all
> can't have the same." ???  And no politician is even going to propose
> rationing or anything meaningful. Heck, if you put it to a referendum in
> the US it would never pass.
>     So do you have any reality based solutions for it?
> 
> 
> David Neeley wrote:
>> By positing those who are skeptics as "deniers" you immediately
>> emotionalize the issue.
>>
>> An extremely good resource is the Cambridge Conference Network
>> newsletter, which contains articles and commentary on all sides of the
>> issue.
>>
>> One problem in the discussion is that there are actually very few
>> scientists actually qualified to discuss climate change. For example,
>> there are only about 80 individuals in the U.S. (and a similar number
>> elsewhere worldwide) who actually have Ph.D. degrees in climatology.
>> Quite a few of these, in fact, are people much more skeptical than you
>> may imagine.
>>
>> "Global Warming" is presently very much in the status of a
>> religion--we are asked to accept much by faith that cannot be
>> conclusively proven, and even that subject to other factors that may
>> in fact describe the problem far better.
>>
>> I have found no links between carbon concentrations and warming, for
>> example. In fact, rising carbon levels generally come after
>> significant warming measurements, not before. The only direct
>> correlations that have been found thus far are between sunspot
>> activity and warming, from what I can determine.
>>
>> However, intelligent discussion of these issues is very hard to find
>> on most fora. Many people simply accept what they are told is
>> "scientific consensus" as some sort of holy writ without challenge.
>> That, I'm afraid, is not scientific method.
>>
>> My position is simple: I don't accept at face value many
>> unsubstantiated claims--especially the hysterical ones such as Al
>> Gore's over the top predictions based upon nothing I can find except
>> his own investments in carbon offset brokers. His dire warnings of
>> "twenty foot sea level rises" for example far exceed even the most
>> pessimistic forecasts of those who are proposing global warming
>> catastrophe--by a factor of ten or more, in fact.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
> 


-- 
Harmon Seaver