[Bioconversion] Carbon Arc Steam Reforming of biomass

[Geoff Thomas]

Hi Guys, I find this very interesting stuff, mind you I suspect there is no free lunch anywhere
in the carbon cycle, but there are lots of things we do with consuming carbon where there is
waste heat so it may just be a matter of organisation.
Two things I my ignorant un trained self thought I noticed with Mike Antals stuff, (and you know
he has made a charcoal fuel cell!) - one was that almost all reactions had very high carbon
dioxide, - I thought not good but maybe need to go back and be more specfic, - another was the
closeness to the mixture he advocated, to the Sago tree, - ahh isn't it good if you have an
obsession?
Whatever, I am still truly interested in the carbon arc idea as one of my situations has an
excess of power at 850 volts, (DC) (90 amps) and that could be a very good situation for a carbon
arc. - ?assuming the rest of the situation culd be organised to take advantage of that
opportunity, (weather constrained).
Cheers,
Geoff.

> At 10:39 PM 6/23/2007 +0100, AJH wrote:
>>
>>C6H10O5.H2O + spark =>  6CO + 6H2 + waste heat
>>
>>lhv 16.4MJ*0.18kg    => 9.05*0.168kg + hhv 117.83MJ*0.12kg
>>
>>2.952MJ/mol             1.5204MJ/6mol +  14.1396MJ/6mol
>>
>>This neglects the sensible heat in the output
>>
>>Are my calculations correct?
>
> "At high temperatures, carbon decomposes steam into hydrogen and carbon
> monoxide, but with an absorption of heat according to the equation:
>
> For one pound carbon:
>
>  C+H2O > CO+H2 - 56,145 B.T.U.
>
> (sorry about the old empiricist units -- but this is excerpted from an
> ancient book)
>
> But that is "classical" -- now read the article I found that discusses it
> all from a totally different "perspective" -- forget the "steam" --- just
> molecular rip and shift -- using arc power.
>
> Have still not found the "chemistry-energy" to describe what an arc is
> doing to the hydrocarbon. Like we with the clear reference to steam
> reforming carbon above.
>
> But here is something interesting:
>
> "Elec Energy Cost 0.06kWh/m3 of syngas (energy from syngas = 3.0KW-hr/m3 )"
>
> http://gcep.stanford.edu/
>
> This certainly broadens the horizons some!!
>
>>Anyone care to comment?
>
> Yes -- you know what I am suspecting??
>
> Something new under the sun is occurring -- and nobody is completely up to
> speed on it.
>
> It does not "fit" with prior state of the art observations in conventional
> "reforming" examples -- so many are just knee jerking it off as "fraud"
>
> We have two directions here -- sit back smugly and think we know so much
> better -- and call it all a major "fraud" -- or get to doing some
> "grinding" to find out exactly what the hell is going down!!
>
> I suggest we keep digging!!
>
> OK -- some examples --
>
> Louis Circeo, Ph.D. Bechtel BWXT Idaho, LLC
> Georgia Tech Research Institute,
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> I feel uncomfortable calling people like this fraud artists!!
>
> He is the man pushing the huge project in Florida -- but he has been in
> this field of development for many years (I researched and verified that!!)
>
> The man is brilliant!! (and more on him Below)
>
> He is but one of the "investigators" in this major study:
>
> VERIFICATION REPORT FOR THE PLASMA ENHANCED MELTER
>
> Pilot Plant, Hawaii Medical Waste Facility
>
> This Technology Verification report describes the nature and scope of the
> environmental evaluation of the performance of the Plasma Enhanced Melter
> (PEM) system for waste treatment. The evaluation was conducted through a
> cooperative program established in 1998 between the Washington State
> Department of Ecology (WSDOE), Integrated Environmental Technology Inc.
> (IET), Allied Technology Group (ATG) and the Civil Engineering Research
> Foundation (CERF). The goal of this report is to provide potential users
> and purchasers of the PEM
> system with information they need to make more informed decisions regarding
> the performance of as an equivalent or alternative to incineration for
> treating hazardous waste.
>
> The PEM™ process accomplishes both gasification and vitrification
> simultaneously. Organic materials in the feed are gasified in reactions at
> high temperatures with steam to produce a synthesis gas (syngas) containing
> H, CO, and CH. Inorganic components in the feed (like metals and minerals)
> are melted and incorporated into a leach-resistant vitrified product.
> Unlike a combustion process that produces heat, the gasification and
> melting processes absorb heat (are endothermic processes) and thus require
> an outside heat source.
>
> http://www.clu-in.org/download/contaminantfocus/pops/evtec_finalreport.pdf
>
> *******************************************************
>
> Now -- the bad news -- though that paper is incredibly detailed in regards
> to plasma arc conversion of "Wastes" it is not talking about energy
> efficiencies at all -- it is one of those set ups where tipping fees pay
> all the costs -- and most of the time -- syngas is simply "flared"
>
> However -- it supplies great insights into "thermal-arc" gasification --
> and you might want to get up to speed on that subject.
>
> Now -- the kind of punch line to all of this --
>
> Louis Circeo, Ph.D. Bechtel BWXT Idaho, LLC
> Georgia Tech Research Institute,
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> Specifically:
>
> Louis CIRCEO  -- Plasma Incinerator
>
> http://www.rexresearch.com/circeo/circeo.htm
>
> Here you really have a major study presented.
>
> OK -- I admit -- I feel uncomfortable painting this man a Fraud Artist --
> maybe I am just to naive??
>
> But -- you know that old quandrum??
>
> Just who are we to believe??
>
> http://www.rexresearch.com/circeo/circeo.htm
>
> You really have to check that url out -- and there you might not get all
> the nuts and bolts -- but we do read this!!
>
> The $425 million facility expected to be built in St. Lucie County will use
> lightning-like plasma arcs to turn trash into gas and rock-like material.
> It will be the first such plant in the nation operating on such a massive
> scale and the largest in the world.
>
> The 100,000-square-foot plant, slated to be operational in two years, is
> expected to vaporize 3,000 tons of garbage a day
>
> Synthetic, combustible gas produced in the process will be used to run
> turbines to create about 120 megawatts of electricity that will be sold
> back to the grid. The facility will operate on about a third of the power
> it generates, free from outside electricity.
>
> About 80,000 pounds of steam per day will be sold to a neighboring
> Tropicana Products Inc. facility to power the juice plant's turbines.
>
> OK -- two ways people are looking at this!!
>
> Most are looking at it this way:
>
> Man -- what a fraud artist!!
>
> And a few --
>
> Holy Sh**t!! I must be missing something here!! I am going to research and
> investigate and get to the bottom of this!!
>
> You know -- as I walk along through life -- suddenly I see this great
> mountain -- and I can't help myself -- I just must climb it -- if for no
> other reason that to say I have done so!!
>
> AJH -- so you climb mountians to -- eh??
>
> There is something goind on with palsma arc that does not conform to the
> older steam reforming formulas!!
>
> That is the name of this mountain!!
>
> so -- let us go climb it!!
>
> Read and check out the url below -- good path to start climbing this
> mountain -- so much to explain -- course -- some will just call it all a
> fraud and walk right straight away!!
>
> Stanford now supports fraudulent "science"?? My -- I do learn something new
> everyday ---
>
>
>
> Peter/Belize
>
>>
>>AJH
>
> *******************************appended******************
>
> As Jeffe points out in his arcing water example -- he was surprised the
> water did not heat up fast.
>
> Though the temperature of operation is very high -- the watts of power is
> really very low.
>
> If you figure dry wood at 2000 watt hour per pound -- 3 pounds of that
> would equal everything that -- in my example 6kw arc is producing (well --
> make it 4 pounds to cover combustion efficiency losses) for one hour!!
>
> Compare that to a 6 kw diesel genset!! (and what -- 2 liters of diesel fuel??)
>
>>>>Has anyone seen if high voltage and frequency are effective versus
> amperage at low voltage (a welder).
>>>
>
> Just so happens I lately downloaded a serious article on exactly that
> perspective:
>
> Conversion of Hydrocarbons into SynGas Stimulated by Nonthermal Atmospheric
> Pressure Plasma
>
> Alexander Fridman, Alexander Gutsol, Young I Cho, Chiranjeev Kalra
>
> Get your copy here:
>
> http://gcep.stanford.edu/pdfs/energy_workshops_04_04/hydrogen_fridman.pdf
>
> Please look it over and let us all know if it is of potential value --
>
> Killer line:
>
> "Elec Energy Cost 0.06kWh/m3 of syngas (energy from syngas = 3.0KW-hr/m3 )"
>
>
> I did a quick read -- very impressive indeed -- and as you suggest --
> results for much less arc power!!
>
> They name it: "Gliding Arc"
>
> And it operates using power at: well -- all he devulges is "Hih voltage DC"
>
> •Only 2.0% of Total Energy Consumption Required for Plasma Power
>
> •Elec Energy Cost 0.06kWh/m3 of syngas (energy from syngas = 3.0KW-hr/m3 )
>
> •92% conversion at Equivalence ratio of 3.3
>
> •Internal Heat Recuperation (Preheating) at 750 K
>
> •No soot Deposition
>
> •Large Specific Production rates due to low residence times
>
> •Effective for Higher Hydrocarbon conversion to SynGas
>
> •Not Sensitive to Sulfur and Other Impurities
>
> sounds like the proverbial dream gasification -- eh??
>
> It does not work on solids -- only gasses -- he uses methane to make syngas.
>
> I would investigate making syngas from pyrolysis off-gas --
>
> After all -- reaping syngas from the char making process would be a major
> feather in that energy conversion's efficiencies --
>
> And one of the products those Chinese permanant magnet DC welders produce
> is 220 volts DC at 300 Hz -- square wave.
>
> Ergo -- my interest in this process.
>
> Peter/Belize
>
>
> At 06:58 AM 6/23/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>>Dan N., Dan C., Peter and list,
>>
>>  Now I ask this question...would an electric arc supplement a catalyst
> unit and require less power than the arc alone, reducing the electric
> input?  Is there perhaps a "sweet spot" for a combined catalyst/arc, for
> example at 1800 f and 10% of arc alone electric.  Has anyone seen if high
> voltage and frequency are effective versus amperage at low voltage (a
> welder).  My tig certainly crackles when the atmosphere is wet.  That's
> mostly the high frequency though, not big power.  But that high freq. arc
> starts the power flow from a much greater distance like a carrier.  The
> question then is, is it the heat alone (of the arc) that causes the
> reaction or is there another factor where a small application of electric
> energy could get a big return in H and CO (ie most energy input from the
> catalyst), like a high voltage spark at low power?
>>
>>  Daniel Chisholm, does this theory (catalyst) work on the DTU simulation
> model?  Speaking of DTU, after looking at their diagrams, I cannot figure
> out the "2 stages".  Can you provide a simplified explanation or did I miss
> one on the site?
>>
>>  Regards,   Toby Seiler
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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