[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
stan simon
slsimon at tds.net
Tue Aug 15 13:19:01 CDT 2006
Gentlemen,
Corrosion of engine parts is a concern for gasoline type engines running on
biogas. The engine manufacturers have a special biogas version with nickel
plated valves, perhaps carburetor, ? etc to handle the situation. I'm not
sure if the ammonia causes engine corrosion, it would be best to keep copper
out of the fuel stream because ammonia eats copper. I would talk to a
Caterpillar representative.
Stan L Simon, P.E.
S. L. Simon Engineering P.A.
320-264-5354 Phone/Fax
320-894-1117 Cell
slsimon at tds.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Tom Miles)
> 2. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (David Fulford)
> 3. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Andreas Schuenhoff)
> 4. Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion? (Ahmet Musluoglu)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:07:04 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c6bfc4$1255dcb0$0200a8c0 at Hp1270>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> All,
>
> What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up to
> 1%
> chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
> chlorine
> during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off with
> the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
> applications?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Miles
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:42:10 +0100
> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>,<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060815102958.013c8d58 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Tom,
>
> Interesting question.
>
> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can absorb
> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at around
> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such
> as
> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine
> bound
> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>
> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this
> burns
> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>
> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough to
> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in
> the
> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about
> the
> short lifetime.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>All,
>>
>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up to
>>1%
>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
>>chlorine
>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off with
>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>applications?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Tom Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:36:25 +0100
> From: "Andreas Schuenhoff" <schuenhoff at ualg.pt>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: "'David Fulford'" <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>,
> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000601c6c056$a923e460$0201a8c0 at a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi there,
>
> I'm not an expert but do you get ammonia in the process of digestion?
> If yes, this will neutralize chlorine...
>
> Regards from Portugal,
> Andreas
>
> Andreas Schuenhoff, MSc
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ALGAE - CCMAR
> Univ. do Algarve, Gambelas
> 8005-139 Faro, Portugal
> t: +351 916 040 437
> f: +351 289 818 793
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of David Fulford
> Sent: 15 August 2006 10:42
> To: Tom Miles; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>
> Tom,
>
> Interesting question.
>
> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can absorb
> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at around
> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such
> as
> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine
> bound
> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>
> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this
> burns
> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>
> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough to
> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in
> the
> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about
> the
> short lifetime.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>All,
>>
>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up to
> 1%
>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
>>chlorine
>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off with
>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>applications?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Tom Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:25:50 +0300
> From: "Ahmet Musluoglu" <ahmet.m at arbiogaz.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion?
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA8DXKTLIppUeEEwYTK0VbucKAAAAQAAAAulf4xEoTBESIVznhMGtwCgEAAAAA at arbiogaz.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I would like to consult a subject. Is it possible to co-digest cattle and
> chicken manure together in the same reactor?
>
> As far as I know, there is sand and N problem with the chicken manure for
> AD. But maybe with pre-treatment of sand and N dilution with cattle manure
> can make it work?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for anyone sharing his knowledge and experience on the
> subject,
>
>
>
> Ahmet Musluoglu
>
> MSc. Env. Eng.
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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