[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7

Wed Aug 16 12:16:07 CDT 2006

All,

I spoke to Kim Crossman, Team Leader of the EPA's Combined Heat and Power 
Partnership (http://www.epa.gov/chp/index.htm) yesterday.  They are 
developing a comprehensive biogas clean-up technologies manual that should 
be available next month.  (NYSERDA is also funding a comprehensive review 
of biogas clean-up and emissions control technologies that will ultimately 
be developed in to a document for public dissemination.  It should be 
available early next year.)

Sincerely,
Kathleen O'Connor, P.E.
Project Manager
Environmental Research

NYSERDA
17 Columbia Circle
Albany, NY  12203

kmo at nyserda.org
(518) 862-1090 ext. 3422
(518) 862-1091

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Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6 (stan simon)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:19:01 -0500
From: "stan simon" <slsimon at tds.net>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID: <003701c6c097$4a15dfa0$7e9a1545 at COMPUTER1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
                 reply-type=original

Gentlemen,

Corrosion of engine parts is a concern for gasoline type engines running 
on 
biogas.  The engine manufacturers have a special biogas version with 
nickel 
plated valves,  perhaps carburetor, ? etc to handle the situation.  I'm 
not 
sure if the ammonia causes engine corrosion, it would be best to keep 
copper 
out of the fuel stream because ammonia eats copper. I would talk to a 
Caterpillar representative.

Stan L Simon, P.E.
S. L. Simon Engineering P.A.
320-264-5354 Phone/Fax
320-894-1117  Cell
slsimon at tds.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6

> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
> digestion at listserv.repp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> digestion-owner at listserv.repp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Tom Miles)
>   2. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (David Fulford)
>   3. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Andreas Schuenhoff)
>   4. Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion? (Ahmet Musluoglu)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:07:04 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c6bfc4$1255dcb0$0200a8c0 at Hp1270>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> All,
>
> What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up 
to 
> 1%
> chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the 
> chlorine
> during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off 
with
> the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
> applications?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Miles
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:42:10 +0100
> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>,<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060815102958.013c8d58 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Tom,
>
> Interesting question.
>
> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can 
absorb
> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at 
around
> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such 

> as
> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine 
> bound
> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>
> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this 
> burns
> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>
> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough 
to
> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in 
> the
> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about 
> the
> short lifetime.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>All,
>>
>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up 
to 
>>1%
>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the 
>>chlorine
>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off 
with
>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>applications?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Tom Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building       ***
> ***     School of Construction Management and Engineering      ***
> ***      The University of Reading, Whiteknights,              ***
> ***    Reading RG6 6AY, UK      Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563,      ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:36:25 +0100
> From: "Andreas Schuenhoff" <schuenhoff at ualg.pt>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
> To: "'David Fulford'" <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>,
> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000601c6c056$a923e460$0201a8c0 at a>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi there,
>
> I'm not an expert but do you get ammonia in the process of digestion?
> If yes, this will neutralize chlorine...
>
> Regards from Portugal,
> Andreas
>
> Andreas Schuenhoff, MSc
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ALGAE - CCMAR
> Univ. do Algarve, Gambelas
> 8005-139 Faro, Portugal
> t: +351 916 040 437
> f: +351 289 818 793
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of David Fulford
> Sent: 15 August 2006 10:42
> To: Tom Miles; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>
> Tom,
>
> Interesting question.
>
> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can 
absorb
> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at 
around
> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such 

> as
> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine 
> bound
> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>
> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this 
> burns
> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>
> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough 
to
> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in 
> the
> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about 
> the
> short lifetime.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>All,
>>
>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up 
to
> 1%
>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the 
>>chlorine
>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off 
with
>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>applications?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Tom Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building       ***
> ***     School of Construction Management and Engineering      ***
> ***      The University of Reading, Whiteknights,              ***
> ***    Reading RG6 6AY, UK      Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563,      ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:25:50 +0300
> From: "Ahmet Musluoglu" <ahmet.m at arbiogaz.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion?
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA8DXKTLIppUeEEwYTK0VbucKAAAAQAAAAulf4xEoTBESIVznhMGtwCgEAAAAA at arbiogaz.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I would like to consult a subject. Is it possible to co-digest cattle 
and
> chicken manure together in the same reactor?
>
> As far as I know, there is sand and N problem with the chicken manure 
for
> AD. But maybe with pre-treatment of sand and N dilution with cattle 
manure
> can make it work?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for anyone sharing his knowledge and experience on the
> subject,
>
>
>
> Ahmet Musluoglu
>
> MSc. Env. Eng.
>
>
>
> 
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