[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 8
Carolyn Henri
Carolyn at ResourceConsulting.us
Mon Aug 21 12:25:09 CDT 2006
I am also interested in the question posed by Ahmet Musluoglu regarding
experiences mixing cow and chicken manure during digestion. I'd like to
know: 1) are there existing, operating digesters that regularly use this
manure mix? If so, where? 2) what are the challenges in combining
cow/chicken manure? 3) Are there advantages to this mix? Didn't want this
topic to get lost in the pile.
Thanks,
Carolyn Henri
**************************************************
Carolyn J. Henri, Ph.D.
Project Manager
Stanwood Bio-Energy Producers
Methane Digester Feasibility Project
Resource Consulting Service, LLC
4805 Belvedere Ave.
Everett, WA 98203
Phone: (425) 290-3181
Fax: (425) 290-7678
Cell: 425-308-1634
E-mail: Carolyn at ResourceConsulting.us
****************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:11 AM
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 8
> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7 (Kathleen O'Connor)
> 2. DOC Biogas potential (Arjun Gupta)
> 3. Re: DOC Biogas potential (LEMAIRE, Olivier)
> 4. Re: DOC Biogas potential (David Fulford)
> 5. Re: DOC Biogas potential (alastair ward (IGER-NW))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:16:07 -0400
> From: Kathleen O'Connor <kmo at nyserda.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7
> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <OF0CD5E57A.A111991E-ON852571CC.005E4C24-852571CC.005EC06C at nyserda.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> All,
>
> I spoke to Kim Crossman, Team Leader of the EPA's Combined Heat and Power
> Partnership (http://www.epa.gov/chp/index.htm) yesterday. They are
> developing a comprehensive biogas clean-up technologies manual that should
> be available next month. (NYSERDA is also funding a comprehensive review
> of biogas clean-up and emissions control technologies that will ultimately
> be developed in to a document for public dissemination. It should be
> available early next year.)
>
> Sincerely,
> Kathleen O'Connor, P.E.
> Project Manager
> Environmental Research
>
> NYSERDA
> 17 Columbia Circle
> Albany, NY 12203
>
> kmo at nyserda.org
> (518) 862-1090 ext. 3422
> (518) 862-1091
>
>
>
>
> digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
> Sent by: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> 08/16/2006 01:00 PM
> Please respond to
> digestion at listserv.repp.org
>
>
> To
> digestion at listserv.repp.org
> cc
>
> Subject
> Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6 (stan simon)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:19:01 -0500
> From: "stan simon" <slsimon at tds.net>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <003701c6c097$4a15dfa0$7e9a1545 at COMPUTER1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Corrosion of engine parts is a concern for gasoline type engines running
> on
> biogas. The engine manufacturers have a special biogas version with
> nickel
> plated valves, perhaps carburetor, ? etc to handle the situation. I'm
> not
> sure if the ammonia causes engine corrosion, it would be best to keep
> copper
> out of the fuel stream because ammonia eats copper. I would talk to a
> Caterpillar representative.
>
> Stan L Simon, P.E.
> S. L. Simon Engineering P.A.
> 320-264-5354 Phone/Fax
> 320-894-1117 Cell
> slsimon at tds.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:00 PM
> Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
>
>
>> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Tom Miles)
>> 2. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (David Fulford)
>> 3. Re: What Happens to Chlorine in digestion? (Andreas Schuenhoff)
>> 4. Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion? (Ahmet Musluoglu)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:07:04 -0700
>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>> Subject: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <000001c6bfc4$1255dcb0$0200a8c0 at Hp1270>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> All,
>>
>> What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up
> to
>> 1%
>> chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
>> chlorine
>> during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off
> with
>> the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>> applications?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:42:10 +0100
>> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>> To: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>,<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060815102958.013c8d58 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Interesting question.
>>
>> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
>> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can
> absorb
>> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at
> around
>> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such
>
>> as
>> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine
>> bound
>> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
>> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>>
>> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
>> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this
>> burns
>> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
>> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>>
>> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
>> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough
> to
>> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
>> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in
>> the
>> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
>> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about
>> the
>> short lifetime.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David Fulford
>>
>> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>>All,
>>>
>>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up
> to
>>>1%
>>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
>>>chlorine
>>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off
> with
>>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>>applications?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Tom Miles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>
>> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
>> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
>> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
>> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
>> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:36:25 +0100
>> From: "Andreas Schuenhoff" <schuenhoff at ualg.pt>
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>> To: "'David Fulford'" <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>,
>> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID: <000601c6c056$a923e460$0201a8c0 at a>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm not an expert but do you get ammonia in the process of digestion?
>> If yes, this will neutralize chlorine...
>>
>> Regards from Portugal,
>> Andreas
>>
>> Andreas Schuenhoff, MSc
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ALGAE - CCMAR
>> Univ. do Algarve, Gambelas
>> 8005-139 Faro, Portugal
>> t: +351 916 040 437
>> f: +351 289 818 793
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of David Fulford
>> Sent: 15 August 2006 10:42
>> To: Tom Miles; digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] What Happens to Chlorine in digestion?
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Interesting question.
>>
>> I suspect that it remains in the slurry. A good anaerobic digester is
>> well-buffered, which means that it contains carbonate ions that can
> absorb
>> carbon dioxide to become bicarbonate, which means the pH is kept at
> around
>> neutral. If you have carbonate ions, there must also be metal ions, such
>
>> as
>> sodium, potassium and calcium. If there is free chlorine, or chlorine
>> bound
>> fairly loosely to organic compounds, it will react with the metal ions
>> fairly quickly to form chlorides.
>>
>> As far as engines are concerned, sulphur is more of a problem, as it
>> emerges as hydrogen sulfide. If the biogas is used in an engine, this
>> burns
>> to make sulphur dioxide and does corrode the exhaust pipes. Any free
>> chlorine in the gas will also form acid in the exhaust.
>>
>> Most biogas engines are either dual-fuel (i.e. diesel) or are based on a
>> diesel engine, but with a spark plug, so they are usually strong enough
> to
>> cope with a bit of corrosion. Where gasoline engines have been used with
>> biogas, they have had a fairly short life. Several years ago a group in
>> the
>> Philippines (Maya Farms) had a set of second-hand Japanese engines to
>> generate power, but they could get them cheaply and did not worry about
>> the
>> short lifetime.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David Fulford
>>
>> At 10:07 14/08/2006 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>>>All,
>>>
>>>What happens to chlorine during digestion? Many manures can contain up
> to
>> 1%
>>>chlorine (dry basis). What reactions occur and what happens to the
>>>chlorine
>>>during digestion? Does it stay with the effluent or does it carry off
> with
>>>the gas? If it goes with the gas what is done to protect engines in most
>>>applications?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Tom Miles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>
>> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
>> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
>> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
>> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
>> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:25:50 +0300
>> From: "Ahmet Musluoglu" <ahmet.m at arbiogaz.com>
>> Subject: [Digestion] Cattle and chicken manure co-digestion?
>> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
> <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA8DXKTLIppUeEEwYTK0VbucKAAAAQAAAAulf4xEoTBESIVznhMGtwCgEAAAAA at arbiogaz.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to consult a subject. Is it possible to co-digest cattle
> and
>> chicken manure together in the same reactor?
>>
>> As far as I know, there is sand and N problem with the chicken manure
> for
>> AD. But maybe with pre-treatment of sand and N dilution with cattle
> manure
>> can make it work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for anyone sharing his knowledge and experience on the
>> subject,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ahmet Musluoglu
>>
>> MSc. Env. Eng.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Icerigi gizli ve ozel olan bu mesaj, sadece uzerinde alici olarak
>> isim(ler)i bulunan kisi(ler) icindir. Alici olarak belirtilen kisi(ler)
>> degilseniz, lutfen mesajin icerdigi bilgiyi kullanmayin ve hemen
> Arbiogaz
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>> San. Tic. A.S.nin goruslerini yansitmayabilecegi icin, hukuken veya
>> herhangi bir diger acidan, Arbiogaz Cevre Teknolojileri Insaat San. Tic.
>
>> A.S.'ni baglayici bir durum yaratmamaktadir. Her ne kadar gonderilen
>> mesajlar ve ekli dosyalar virus taramasindan gecirilse de, virus
>> neticesinde olusabilecek tahribatlardan Arbiogaz Cevre Teknolojileri
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>>
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>> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 6
>> ***************************************
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7
> ***************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:20:03 +0530
> From: "Arjun Gupta" <arjun.perennial at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <ef12a4610608162150o81a5518jef7886d0acdf6713 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello,
> Has anyone experienecd using Castor De-oiled cake to produce biogas.
> Also
> what are the basic analysis tests to be done on a potential biogas feed
> stock to determine it's biogas potential, dilution and solids in output
> slurry percentage. How does one use these figures.
> Thankyou.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:32:04 +0200
> From: "LEMAIRE, Olivier" <Olivier.LEMAIRE at veolia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
> To: "Arjun Gupta" <arjun.perennial at gmail.com>,
> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <B604D2F9D3EE044C96D4195C799BD1BA6D2756 at sar-mail1.messagerie.ve>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello
>
> Concerning the biogaas potential, you can do a BMP (Biochemical Methane
> Potential) test which gives you all the biogas available with the
> degradable fraction of the organic matter of your waste. We usually also
> analyse the biogas, to get the methane rate.
> Basic analysis are also dry and organic matter content and C/N ratio.
>
>
> Olivier LEMAIRE
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] De la part de Arjun Gupta
> Envoy? : jeudi 17 ao?t 2006 06:50
> ? : digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Objet : [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
>
> Hello,
> Has anyone experienecd using Castor De-oiled cake to produce biogas.
> Also what are the basic analysis tests to be done on a potential biogas
> feed stock to determine it's biogas potential, dilution and solids in
> output slurry percentage. How does one use these figures.
> Thankyou.
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
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> veuillez nous en avertir immediatement par la meme voie et detruire
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:30:05 +0100
> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
> To: "Arjun Gupta"
> <arjun.perennial at gmail.com>,digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060817091124.013b3af8 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Arjun Gupta and listers,
>
> The experiences of Vivekananda Kendra - NARDEP in southern Tamil Nadu and
> also Dr Karve of ARTI in Pune (see
> http://www.ashdenawards.org/technical_summary06_india_vk_nardep and
> http://www.ashdenawards.org/technical_summary06_india_arti) show that
> deoiled cake of all oil seeds (including castor) is a very good feed for
> biogas plants. The biogas production is very much higher than that for
> cattle dung (Dr Karve claims 40 times).
>
> The best way to test the biogas potential of a feedstock is to put it into
> a small biogas plant. The ARTI design is very cheap and mobile (made from
> two spun HPDE plastic water tanks), so would be an ideal test bed. My own
> experience of testing feedstock samples is that the standard batch
> digestion tests do not give the same results as using a semi-continuous
> process. A well-adapted semi-continuous plant is surprisingly robust and
> can cope with a wide range of feedstocks and a wide range of dilutions and
> total solid content. Obviously, if there is too much water, it just washes
> out the bacteria, so you need to use a UASB or anaerobic filter, which are
> designed to clean up polluted water. The upper limit for total solid
> content, though, seems very high and is usually constrained by the desire
> to pour the feedstock in and out of the plant. Mix a known amount of the
> feed to be tested with the regular feed of the plant (cow dung, food
> wastes) and use it for several days and measure the increase in gas
> production over the quantity measured when the plant is fed steadily with
> the standard feed.
>
> regards,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:20 17/08/2006 +0530, Arjun Gupta wrote:
>>Hello,
>> Has anyone experienecd using Castor De-oiled cake to produce biogas.
>> Also
>>what are the basic analysis tests to be done on a potential biogas feed
>>stock to determine it's biogas potential, dilution and solids in output
>>slurry percentage. How does one use these figures.
>>Thankyou.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:11:01 +0100
> From: "alastair ward \(IGER-NW\)" <alastair.ward at bbsrc.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
> To: "David Fulford" <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>, "Arjun Gupta"
> <arjun.perennial at gmail.com>, <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <13DEE40AE4BF764586DBF27022F0D6A7010C8E53 at nwe2ksrv1.igernet.bbsrc.ac.uk>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree with David that a digester is the best way to find the methane
> potential, but this raises a question that has bothered me about the BMP
> assays in the past: The method uses a nutrient and trace element mixture
> to support the microbes, but if a feedstock is deficient in one or more
> of these, the BMP assay will not take this into account. If something is
> missing in the feed then I would like this to be reflected in the
> results. Does anybody know why the assay uses these additives?
>
> Regards,
>
> Alastair Ward
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of David Fulford
> Sent: 17 August 2006 09:30
> To: Arjun Gupta; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] DOC Biogas potential
>
>
> Arjun Gupta and listers,
>
> The experiences of Vivekananda Kendra - NARDEP in southern Tamil Nadu
> and
> also Dr Karve of ARTI in Pune (see
> http://www.ashdenawards.org/technical_summary06_india_vk_nardep and
> http://www.ashdenawards.org/technical_summary06_india_arti) show that
> deoiled cake of all oil seeds (including castor) is a very good feed for
>
> biogas plants. The biogas production is very much higher than that for
> cattle dung (Dr Karve claims 40 times).
>
> The best way to test the biogas potential of a feedstock is to put it
> into
> a small biogas plant. The ARTI design is very cheap and mobile (made
> from
> two spun HPDE plastic water tanks), so would be an ideal test bed. My
> own
> experience of testing feedstock samples is that the standard batch
> digestion tests do not give the same results as using a semi-continuous
> process. A well-adapted semi-continuous plant is surprisingly robust and
>
> can cope with a wide range of feedstocks and a wide range of dilutions
> and
> total solid content. Obviously, if there is too much water, it just
> washes
> out the bacteria, so you need to use a UASB or anaerobic filter, which
> are
> designed to clean up polluted water. The upper limit for total solid
> content, though, seems very high and is usually constrained by the
> desire
> to pour the feedstock in and out of the plant. Mix a known amount of
> the
> feed to be tested with the regular feed of the plant (cow dung, food
> wastes) and use it for several days and measure the increase in gas
> production over the quantity measured when the plant is fed steadily
> with
> the standard feed.
>
> regards,
>
> David Fulford
>
> At 10:20 17/08/2006 +0530, Arjun Gupta wrote:
>>Hello,
>> Has anyone experienecd using Castor De-oiled cake to produce
>>biogas. Also what are the basic analysis tests to be done on a
>>potential biogas feed stock to determine it's biogas potential,
>>dilution and solids in output slurry percentage. How does one use these
>
>>figures. Thankyou. _______________________________________________
>>Digestion mailing list
>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> *** Dr David Fulford, Energy Group, Engineering Building ***
> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
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