[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 25
stan simon
slsimon at tds.net
Mon Nov 27 17:39:47 CST 2006
There were some articles printer earlier this year about doing something
with the (small?) fraction of sugars in raw wood. The idea was directed at
the paper industry I believe. Instead of flushing it away it could be
digested into methane or fermented into ethanol.
As for the lignin in wood you have to have something like the enzymes from
termites to break it down. This is a current area of research. If you get
it figured out let me know. Anaerobic bacteria don't do much to alter the
structure of lignin.
----- Original Message -----
From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 25
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Kitchen grease to biogas (Paul Harris)
> 2. Woody Biomass digestion via compost (Wake Robin Design WRD)
> 3. Re: Woody Biomass digestion via compost (Art Krenzel)
> 4. Re: Woody Biomass digestion via compost (David Fulford)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:47:53 +1030
> From: Paul Harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Kitchen grease to biogas
> To: "Zietsman, Rex" <Rex at Process.co.za>
> Cc: bioenergy at listserv.repp.org, digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <456A2EB1.1ADBDDFF at adelaide.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> It may be better to conver the grease to biodiesel, as that is what we
> will be really short of - there are plenty of sources for biogas (even
> the "waste" products of biodiesel?).
>
> The sewage should produce enough biogas to run the plant (and heat the
> biodiesel process!).
>
> "Zietsman, Rex" wrote:
>>
>> Here is an interesting article:
>> "MILLBRAE, CA -- Chevron Energy Solutions, a unit of Chevron
>> Corporation, and the City of Millbrae today celebrated the completion of
>> new facilities at Millbrae's Water Pollution Control Plant that use a
>> common urban waste -- inedible kitchen grease from restaurants -- to
>> naturally produce biogas for generating renewable power and heat to
>> treat the city's wastewater.
> --
> Mr. Paul Harris
> Faculty of Sciences, DP710
> The University of Adelaide, Roseworthy Campus, AUSTRALIA 5371
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:47:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Wake Robin Design WRD <wakerobinlandscaping at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] Woody Biomass digestion via compost
> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <420813.51173.qm at web34007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Greetings,
> I was wondering if any readers have come across the work of Jean Pain.
> The man who converted overgrown hardwood forests in southern france into
> healthy woodlands while simultaneously producing methane, methanol, hot
> water, and compost from the digestion process? I am trying to track down
> his book or a book on the subject which illuminates the specifics of this
> method.
>
> What I understand is that instead of creating a slurry, he built piles of
> wood shavings saturated by water. I am guessing that by composting the
> debris he was able to heat the inside of the pile enough to produce
> methane. It seems like a simpler approach than heating a tank filled with
> a slurry. Does this seem possible?
>
> I want to eventually apply this method in the Pacific Northwest region of
> the USA. What is the feasability of using wood shavings from northwest
> connifers like douglas fir and western red cedar? Does anyone have any
> specifics on the amount of energy produced per ton using this particular
> material? How hot do you need to keep it? Does the collection energy
> justify the energy retrieved by digestion?
>
> I am also interested in learning more about the way gas is collected from
> a compost pile. This particular bit of information has not been revealed
> by any articles on Pain
>
> Finally, any ideas on some good chipper shredders in the PNW?
>
> If anyone has any thoughts on any of these questions I would be grateful,
>
> Abel Kloster
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:27:34 -0800
> From: "Art Krenzel" <phoenix98604 at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Woody Biomass digestion via compost
> To: "Wake Robin Design WRD" <wakerobinlandscaping at yahoo.com>,
> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY108-DAV662D6985CD034EA9F5F159BE60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Abel,
>
> I believe that you may have the technologies to produce gas from hardwood
> shavings confused. Normally, woody biomass can be converted to producer
> gas
> via high temperature gasification. Producer gas is a mixture of hydrogen,
> carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and nitrogen - not methane.
>
> Woody biomass is not a good feedstock candidate for biodigestion and
> conversion into methane. Aerobic composting does not produce methane -
> instead it produces carbon dioxide from the digestion of the woody biomass
> by the microbes. Anaerobic digestion is not a good candidate process
> either
> since it depends upon dissolving the woody biomass into a water solution
> to
> be effective unless you have thousands of years of time. Anaerobic
> digestion depends upon soluble solids which are very low in woody biomass.
>
> Please send me some information on Jean Pain's work.
>
> Art Krenzel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wake Robin Design WRD" <wakerobinlandscaping at yahoo.com>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:47 PM
> Subject: [Digestion] Woody Biomass digestion via compost
>
>
>> Greetings,
>> I was wondering if any readers have come across the work of Jean Pain.
>> The man who converted overgrown hardwood forests in southern france into
>> healthy woodlands while simultaneously producing methane, methanol, hot
>> water, and compost from the digestion process? I am trying to track down
>> his book or a book on the subject which illuminates the specifics of this
>> method.
>>
>> What I understand is that instead of creating a slurry, he built piles
>> of
>> wood shavings saturated by water. I am guessing that by composting the
>> debris he was able to heat the inside of the pile enough to produce
>> methane. It seems like a simpler approach than heating a tank filled
>> with
>> a slurry. Does this seem possible?
>>
>> I want to eventually apply this method in the Pacific Northwest region
>> of
>> the USA. What is the feasability of using wood shavings from northwest
>> connifers like douglas fir and western red cedar? Does anyone have any
>> specifics on the amount of energy produced per ton using this particular
>> material? How hot do you need to keep it? Does the collection energy
>> justify the energy retrieved by digestion?
>>
>> I am also interested in learning more about the way gas is collected
>> from
>> a compost pile. This particular bit of information has not been revealed
>> by any articles on Pain
>>
>> Finally, any ideas on some good chipper shredders in the PNW?
>>
>> If anyone has any thoughts on any of these questions I would be
>> grateful,
>>
>> Abel Kloster
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:09:08 +0000
> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Woody Biomass digestion via compost
> To: Wake Robin Design WRD <wakerobinlandscaping at yahoo.com>,
> digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20061127125411.02ade0a0 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Abel,
>
> This does sound interesting. The problem of wood, as far as anaerobic
> digestion is concerned, is that the bacteria do not degrade lignin.
> However, the cellulose within the lignin structure can be degraded, given
> the right conditions. I have seen plants in Sri Lanka that generate biogas
> from straw, which gives a similar problem. The straw is packed tightly
> into
> a tank and sprayed with liquor from a working digester. The straw is only
> wetted, not flooded. The tank is sealed and produces gas after a week or
> so
> (Sri Lanka has tropical temperatures). The biogas is generated for a month
> or two. Once generation drops off, the tank is opened and emptied and
> refilled.
>
> The first stage of digestion is hydrolysis. The hydrolysing bacteria are
> facultative, i.e. they can work in oxygen or without it. A water saturated
> compost heap will have an anaerobic center, with aerobic activity around
> the edges. It is possible that the aerobic bacteria (which are more
> aggressive) will break down the cellulose in the wood into soluble acids
> that can be used by the methanogens in the center to generate biogas. The
> Sri Lankan approach would probably work with wood shavings as well as it
> does with straw. It might be worth a try. The wood could be aerobically
> composted for a while first. I am not sure when the cellulose gets to the
> point when the anaerobic bacteria can use the fatty acids. If you leave it
> too long, the acids degrade to carbon dioxide and water. If you do not
> leave it long enough, the cellulose has not broken down enough.
>
> Just some thoughts,
>
> David F.
>
> At 18:47 26/11/2006 -0800, Wake Robin Design WRD wrote:
>>Greetings,
>> I was wondering if any readers have come across the work of Jean
>> Pain. The man who converted overgrown hardwood forests in southern
>> france into healthy woodlands while simultaneously producing methane,
>> methanol, hot water, and compost from the digestion process? I am trying
>> to track down his book or a book on the subject which illuminates the
>> specifics of this method.
>>
>> What I understand is that instead of creating a slurry, he built piles
>> of wood shavings saturated by water. I am guessing that by composting
>> the debris he was able to heat the inside of the pile enough to produce
>> methane. It seems like a simpler approach than heating a tank filled
>> with a slurry. Does this seem possible?
>>
>> I want to eventually apply this method in the Pacific Northwest region
>> of the USA. What is the feasability of using wood shavings from
>> northwest connifers like douglas fir and western red cedar? Does anyone
>> have any specifics on the amount of energy produced per ton using this
>> particular material? How hot do you need to keep it? Does the
>> collection energy justify the energy retrieved by digestion?
>>
>> I am also interested in learning more about the way gas is collected
>> from a compost pile. This particular bit of information has not been
>> revealed by any articles on Pain
>>
>> Finally, any ideas on some good chipper shredders in the PNW?
>>
>> If anyone has any thoughts on any of these questions I would be
>> grateful,
>>
>> Abel Kloster
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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>>Digestion mailing list
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>
> *** Dr David Fulford, MSc Renewable Energy, Engineering Building ***
> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***
> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***
> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***
> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***
>
>
>
>
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>
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