[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7

Wed May 9 04:13:47 CDT 2007

I really like the debate.  I'm from the USA and I live about 30 miles from the Home Office of  Dow Chemical where I'm sure many people have PhD's. I'm looking for alternatives for energy that I can build in my workshop and try to utilize 2- 300,000 gals of Pig waste.  I don't have a degree in Biology and If I wait to have Dow or Detroit Electric offer me an alternative to energy, I am certain I will be dead by that time or any economic benefits will be in their pockets and not in the farmers pockets.  My son has been a Medic with  a Marine Unit in Iraq for the last year.  I want an energy alternative because it would  be good for my local economy, and allow a lot of the air out of the Middle east trouble to escape.  If I wait for Big Business of big government to help out ...well that will never happen.  I really believe energy alternatives are an alternative to people dying and going hungry.  Political leaders and many people with appropriate degrees are not available to the people who want to roll up their sleeves. This forum moves my thoughts ahead.

Mike Walter 
Vietnam Veteran

----------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:58:00 +0100> From: David Fulford <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> To: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu,"Duncan Martin"> <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20070508134720.02007900 at pophost.rdg.ac.uk>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed> > Duncan and Mel, Hi> > Don't stifle debate; the value of such a forum is the exchange of ideas, > even basic ones.> > For example, Mel's comment on how to translate calories into methane has > got me thinking. I have a feeling that this is something worth chasing up > on. It is possible to do this for a particular feedstock for which we have > the chemical formula, by looking at the two routes of decomposition: i.e. > combustion in oxygen to give calories and conversion to methane and carbon > dioxide. I have a feeling that the calories listed on food labels are not > exactly the same as the calories you would get if you burned them in air > (not all of a food is digestible). However, it would be a good start.> > Cheers,> > David Fulford> > At 07:32 04/05/2007 -0400, finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu wrote:> >Duncan -> >> >As you say (in effect): one man's junk (one microbe's metabolic waste) is> >another man's treasure (another microbe's substrate). But questioning the> >complexity of the metabolic web terminating in methane was not what> >started the thread. Rather, the question asked was - how to estimate> >methane production.> >> >Mel> >> >> > > Come on lads!!> > >> > > I might speak only for myself but I think it's an abuse of a forum like> > > this> > > for folk to use it as a replacement for ten minutes work in a half-decent> > > public library or on the internet. I'm more tolerant when the enquiry> > > comes> > > from somewhere remote. But I don't think the USA qualifies!> > >> > > For info, Steve, yes there is a mass of research and "a particularly good> > > methanogenic microbial community" is characterized by a great diversity of> > > species, very many of which are not methanogens. Now, go read!> > >> > > Fraternally yours> > >> > > Duncan J Martin> > >> > > Chair> > > Republic of Ireland Centre> > > Chartered Institution of Wastes Management> > >> > > ================================> > > CONTACT DETAILS> > > Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE> > > 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland> > > Mobile: +353 86 8377 906> > > Home: +353 505 42087> > > Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net> > > ================================> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>> > > To: <finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu>; <digestion at listserv.repp.org>> > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:13 PM> > > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> > >> > >> > >>> > >> Presumably not all organisms in an anaerobic environment are> > >> methanogens.> > >> Is> > >> there research on what a particularly good methanogenic microbial> > >> community> > >> looks like? Maybe it's even possible to make an inoculum that would get> > >> things started off in the right direction?> > >>> > >> Steve Verhey, Ph.D> > >> Biologist at Large> > >> Ellensburg, WA USA> > >>> > >>>From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> > >>>To: digestion at listserv.repp.org> > >>>CC: digestion at listserv.repp.org> > >>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> > >>>Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:25:20 -0400 (EDT)> > >>>> > >>>Hello AD's -> > >>>> > >>>Actually, the logical parameters are those obtained through standard> > >>>"Proximate" analysis of foods - i.e., collective tests for fats,> > >>> proteins> > >>>and carbohydrates. Calorie estimate can then be made - and listed on the> > >>>labels of all those tempting cookies. Somehow - and I don't know exactly> > >>>how - calories can be converted to methane.> > >>>> > >>>When you think of it, COD, TS, VS are less appropriate - though deeply> > >>>embedded in waste mentality. Same with bomb calorimetry - as reult may> > >>>have little to do with digestability.> > >>>> > >>>Mel> > >>>> > >>>Melvin S. Finstein, Ph.D.> > >>>Emeritus Professor of Environmental Science> > >>> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey> > >>>Head, ArrowBio USA> > >>>> > >>>105 Carmel Road> > >>>Wheeling, WV 26003> > >>>(304) 242-0341> > >>>Email: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> > >>>Skype: melvinfinstein> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> _________________________________________________________________> > >> Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.> > >> > > http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________> > >> Digestion mailing list> > >> Digestion at listserv.repp.org> > >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> --> > >> No virus found in this incoming message.> > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date:> > >> 01/05/2007> > >> 02:10> > >>> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >Digestion mailing list> >Digestion at listserv.repp.org> >http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org> > *** Dr David Fulford, MSc Renewable Energy, Engineering Building ***> *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***> *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***> *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***> *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk *** > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:24:34 -0400 (EDT)> From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> To: "David Fulford" <d.j.fulford at reading.ac.uk>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org> Message-ID:> <3067.24.97.137.50.1178637874.squirrel at webmail.envsci.rutgers.edu>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> > Hi all,> > Don't know how I got pegged as a debate stifler!! But am decidedly a> debate promoter!!> > Let a million flowers bloom!!!!> > Mel> > > > > > > Duncan and Mel, Hi> >> > Don't stifle debate; the value of such a forum is the exchange of ideas,> > even basic ones.> >> > For example, Mel's comment on how to translate calories into methane has> > got me thinking. I have a feeling that this is something worth chasing up> > on. It is possible to do this for a particular feedstock for which we have> > the chemical formula, by looking at the two routes of decomposition: i.e.> > combustion in oxygen to give calories and conversion to methane and carbon> > dioxide. I have a feeling that the calories listed on food labels are not> > exactly the same as the calories you would get if you burned them in air> > (not all of a food is digestible). However, it would be a good start.> >> > Cheers,> >> > David Fulford> >> > At 07:32 04/05/2007 -0400, finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu wrote:> >>Duncan -> >>> >>As you say (in effect): one man's junk (one microbe's metabolic waste) is> >>another man's treasure (another microbe's substrate). But questioning the> >>complexity of the metabolic web terminating in methane was not what> >>started the thread. Rather, the question asked was - how to estimate> >>methane production.> >>> >>Mel> >>> >>> >> > Come on lads!!> >> >> >> > I might speak only for myself but I think it's an abuse of a forum> >> like> >> > this> >> > for folk to use it as a replacement for ten minutes work in a> >> half-decent> >> > public library or on the internet. I'm more tolerant when the enquiry> >> > comes> >> > from somewhere remote. But I don't think the USA qualifies!> >> >> >> > For info, Steve, yes there is a mass of research and "a particularly> >> good> >> > methanogenic microbial community" is characterized by a great> >> diversity of> >> > species, very many of which are not methanogens. Now, go read!> >> >> >> > Fraternally yours> >> >> >> > Duncan J Martin> >> >> >> > Chair> >> > Republic of Ireland Centre> >> > Chartered Institution of Wastes Management> >> >> >> > ================================> >> > CONTACT DETAILS> >> > Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE> >> > 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland> >> > Mobile: +353 86 8377 906> >> > Home: +353 505 42087> >> > Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net> >> > ================================> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----> >> > From: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>> >> > To: <finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu>; <digestion at listserv.repp.org>> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:13 PM> >> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Presumably not all organisms in an anaerobic environment are> >> >> methanogens.> >> >> Is> >> >> there research on what a particularly good methanogenic microbial> >> >> community> >> >> looks like? Maybe it's even possible to make an inoculum that would> >> get> >> >> things started off in the right direction?> >> >>> >> >> Steve Verhey, Ph.D> >> >> Biologist at Large> >> >> Ellensburg, WA USA> >> >>> >> >>>From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> >> >>>To: digestion at listserv.repp.org> >> >>>CC: digestion at listserv.repp.org> >> >>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production> >> >>>Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:25:20 -0400 (EDT)> >> >>>> >> >>>Hello AD's -> >> >>>> >> >>>Actually, the logical parameters are those obtained through standard> >> >>>"Proximate" analysis of foods - i.e., collective tests for fats,> >> >>> proteins> >> >>>and carbohydrates. Calorie estimate can then be made - and listed on> >> the> >> >>>labels of all those tempting cookies. Somehow - and I don't know> >> exactly> >> >>>how - calories can be converted to methane.> >> >>>> >> >>>When you think of it, COD, TS, VS are less appropriate - though> >> deeply> >> >>>embedded in waste mentality. Same with bomb calorimetry - as reult> >> may> >> >>>have little to do with digestability.> >> >>>> >> >>>Mel> >> >>>> >> >>>Melvin S. Finstein, Ph.D.> >> >>>Emeritus Professor of Environmental Science> >> >>> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey> >> >>>Head, ArrowBio USA> >> >>>> >> >>>105 Carmel Road> >> >>>Wheeling, WV 26003> >> >>>(304) 242-0341> >> >>>Email: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> >> >>>Skype: melvinfinstein> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________> >> >> Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.> >> >>> >> http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________> >> >> Digestion mailing list> >> >> Digestion at listserv.repp.org> >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> --> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.> >> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> >> >> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date:> >> >> 01/05/2007> >> >> 02:10> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________> >>Digestion mailing list> >>Digestion at listserv.repp.org> >>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org> >> > *** Dr David Fulford, MSc Renewable Energy, Engineering Building ***> > *** School of Construction Management and Engineering ***> > *** The University of Reading, Whiteknights, ***> > *** Reading RG6 6AY, UK Tel: +44-(0)118-378 8563, ***> > *** Fax: +44-(0)118-931 3327 E-mail: D.J.Fulford at Reading.ac.uk ***> >> > > Melvin S. Finstein, Ph.D.> Emeritus Professor of Environmental Science> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey> Head, ArrowBio USA> > 105 Carmel Road> Wheeling, WV 26003> (304) 242-0341> Email: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu> Skype: melvinfinstein> > > > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Digestion mailing list> Digestion at listserv.repp.org> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org> > End of Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7> ****************************************
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