[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5

Mon May 14 19:07:24 CDT 2007

Don't be dismayed, Steve.  There is no such thing as a stupid question.  I 
am also not a digestion expert, but have learned a great deal from this 
forum and made several good contacts who have been helpful in directing me 
towards information.
Carolyn Henri

**************************************************
Carolyn J. Henri, Ph.D.
Resource Consulting Service, LLC
4805 Belvedere Ave.
Everett, WA 98203

Phone: (425) 290-3181
Fax: (425) 290-7586
Cell: (425) 308-1634
E-Mail: Carolyn at ResourceConsulting.us
Website:  www.ResourceConsulting.us

**************************************************
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <digestion-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. An apology...and an excuse (Steve Verhey)
>   2. Re: An apology...and an excuse (finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 07:44:17 -0700
> From: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] An apology...and an excuse
> To: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu, duncanjmartin at eircom.net
> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <BAY133-F10A55ED1E41C782C76038CA9400 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>
> There's been talk in the media here about what constitutes a good apology,
> so I know this one will be  of low quality, but I am sorry for asking such 
> a
> simple question. I do have access to reasonable online sources, but not a
> good physical library, and I don't actively work in this field -- I'm just
> interested in it, and in energy issues in general. I'm pretty sure it 
> would
> take me longer than 10 minutes to answer my question. My background is in
> molecular biology and biochemistry, not all that useful. This relatively
> quiet forum seemed a reasonable place to ask the question, which I didn't
> think was off-topic.
>
> That said, the question was my ignorant response to the difficulty/large
> uncertaintly in estimating methane output, which must be mostly due to
> digester-to-digester variability of microbial communities. My impression 
> is
> that AD is done with whatever organisms happen to be present, but it 
> seemed
> to me that (as some products claim to do with composting) it might be
> possible to inoculate with a particularly enthusiastic microbial 
> community,
> or even engineer better methanogens. Apparently this is either not 
> possible,
> or is not considered worth thinking about.
>
> Thanks for your patience,
>
> Steve
>
>>From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu
>>To: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
>>CC: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>, digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production
>>Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:32:55 -0400 (EDT)
>>
>>Duncan -
>>
>>As you say (in effect): one man's junk (one microbe's metabolic waste) is
>>another man's treasure (another microbe's substrate). But questioning the
>>complexity of the metabolic web terminating in methane was not what
>>started the thread. Rather, the question asked was - how to estimate
>>methane production.
>>
>>Mel
>>
>>
>> > Come on lads!!
>> >
>> > I might speak only for myself but I think it's an abuse of a forum like
>> > this
>> > for folk to use it as a replacement for ten minutes work in a
>>half-decent
>> > public library or on the internet. I'm more tolerant when the enquiry
>> > comes
>> > from somewhere remote. But I don't think the USA qualifies!
>> >
>> > For info, Steve, yes there is a mass of research and "a particularly
>>good
>> > methanogenic microbial community" is characterized by a great diversity
>>of
>> > species, very many of which are not methanogens. Now, go read!
>> >
>> > Fraternally yours
>> >
>> > Duncan J Martin
>> >
>> > Chair
>> > Republic of Ireland Centre
>> > Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
>> >
>> > ================================
>> > CONTACT DETAILS
>> > Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
>> > 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
>> > Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
>> > Home: +353 505 42087
>> > Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
>> > ================================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>
>> > To: <finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu>; <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:13 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Presumably not all organisms in an anaerobic environment are
>> >> methanogens.
>> >> Is
>> >> there research on what a particularly good methanogenic microbial
>> >> community
>> >> looks like? Maybe it's even possible to make an inoculum that would 
>> >> get
>> >> things started off in the right direction?
>> >>
>> >> Steve Verhey, Ph.D
>> >> Biologist at Large
>> >> Ellensburg, WA USA
>> >>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
> http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:14:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] An apology...and an excuse
> To: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>
> Cc: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu, digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <50830.72.84.59.43.1178291643.squirrel at webmail.envsci.rutgers.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Not a problem, Steve -
>
> Your background in molecular biology and biochemistry is actually central
> to the matter. But - and a big but it is - not in the clean context of
> pure culture systems being fed nice uniform substrates. Think of the vast
> range of substrates in garbage, and the vast array of organisms and enzyme
> systems needed to transform that mess to CO2, H2O and CH4! The idea of
> adding some special inoculum or biocatalyst to bring it about - or even to
> accelerate it - becomes absurd. Same for composting, sewage treatment, etc
> etc. Think nature guided by appropriate technology.
>
> Mel
>
>
>
>> There's been talk in the media here about what constitutes a good 
>> apology,
>> so I know this one will be  of low quality, but I am sorry for asking 
>> such
>> a
>> simple question. I do have access to reasonable online sources, but not a
>> good physical library, and I don't actively work in this field -- I'm 
>> just
>> interested in it, and in energy issues in general. I'm pretty sure it
>> would
>> take me longer than 10 minutes to answer my question. My background is in
>> molecular biology and biochemistry, not all that useful. This relatively
>> quiet forum seemed a reasonable place to ask the question, which I didn't
>> think was off-topic.
>>
>> That said, the question was my ignorant response to the difficulty/large
>> uncertaintly in estimating methane output, which must be mostly due to
>> digester-to-digester variability of microbial communities. My impression
>> is
>> that AD is done with whatever organisms happen to be present, but it
>> seemed
>> to me that (as some products claim to do with composting) it might be
>> possible to inoculate with a particularly enthusiastic microbial
>> community,
>> or even engineer better methanogens. Apparently this is either not
>> possible,
>> or is not considered worth thinking about.
>>
>> Thanks for your patience,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>>From: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu
>>>To: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
>>>CC: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>, digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production
>>>Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:32:55 -0400 (EDT)
>>>
>>>Duncan -
>>>
>>>As you say (in effect): one man's junk (one microbe's metabolic waste) is
>>>another man's treasure (another microbe's substrate). But questioning the
>>>complexity of the metabolic web terminating in methane was not what
>>>started the thread. Rather, the question asked was - how to estimate
>>>methane production.
>>>
>>>Mel
>>>
>>>
>>> > Come on lads!!
>>> >
>>> > I might speak only for myself but I think it's an abuse of a forum
>>> like
>>> > this
>>> > for folk to use it as a replacement for ten minutes work in a
>>>half-decent
>>> > public library or on the internet. I'm more tolerant when the enquiry
>>> > comes
>>> > from somewhere remote. But I don't think the USA qualifies!
>>> >
>>> > For info, Steve, yes there is a mass of research and "a particularly
>>>good
>>> > methanogenic microbial community" is characterized by a great
>>> diversity
>>>of
>>> > species, very many of which are not methanogens. Now, go read!
>>> >
>>> > Fraternally yours
>>> >
>>> > Duncan J Martin
>>> >
>>> > Chair
>>> > Republic of Ireland Centre
>>> > Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
>>> >
>>> > ================================
>>> > CONTACT DETAILS
>>> > Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
>>> > 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
>>> > Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
>>> > Home: +353 505 42087
>>> > Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
>>> > ================================
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Steve Verhey" <verheys at hotmail.com>
>>> > To: <finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu>; <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:13 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Calculating methane production
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Presumably not all organisms in an anaerobic environment are
>>> >> methanogens.
>>> >> Is
>>> >> there research on what a particularly good methanogenic microbial
>>> >> community
>>> >> looks like? Maybe it's even possible to make an inoculum that would
>>> get
>>> >> things started off in the right direction?
>>> >>
>>> >> Steve Verhey, Ph.D
>>> >> Biologist at Large
>>> >> Ellensburg, WA USA
>>> >>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
>> http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
>>
>
>
>
>
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> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5
> ****************************************
>
> 