[Digestion] delivering biogas in cylinders

[Paul Harris]

G'day A.D. Karve et al,

I see economics as misleading, as the price of fossil fuel is too cheap
- we need to account in energy!

Of course farmers can deliver inputs over long distances and you can
economically compress methane at today's energy cost, as all that is
done with fossil fuels. What you are actually doing is acclerating the
decine of oil as the energy used in transport and conpression in your
process could be used directly for something else without the
inefficiency of producing methane - every unnecessary transformation of
energy is a waste of energy as it is inefficient. We need to look at the
whole system, not just a small component.

Happy digesting,
HOOROO

adkarve wrote:
> 
> Dear Paul,
> I use starchy material in my biogas system. 1 kg starch produces 250 g
> methane. I can ask farmers to deliver me sorghum grain at a particular
> price, at my factory site. At the current wholesale price of Sorghum, I can
> make methane and profit, because I can sell methane at the same price as
> LPG. The current price of LPG is about US$ 1 per kg. All this is of course
> still on the drawing board. The only technology that I today have, is making
> 250 g methane from a kg of sorghum grain, without the use of dung.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
> To: adkarve <adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in>
> Cc: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] delivering biogas in cylinders
> 
> > G'day,
> >
> > Have you looked at how much energy (biogas) is used to compress
> > each  litre of biogas into the cylinder? Now add on the energy to
> > collect waste to the central plant and then dispose of the spent sludge!
> >
> > I know variable volume storage is a nuisance and pipes around the place
> > are messy, but lets look at the "system" rather than a small part of it.
> >
> > I see a "distributed" system where waste is basically treated "on site"
> > and biogas locally utilised via pipes as a simpler and more efficient
> > way of doing this (I know the total capital cost of digesters is higher,
> > but the consequence of failure is also greatly reduced!
> >
> > Happy digesting,
> > HOOROO
> >
> > adkarve wrote:
> > >
> > > I am conducting trials on compressing biogas in cylinders and to
> distribute
> > > it as cooking energy to householders. The idea is to install a large,
> > > centrally located biogas plant and to provide householders daily with
> about
> > > 500 g of methane in a cylinder. I would not be attempting to liquify
> methane
> > > but just to compress it in order to reduce its volume. I was told by an
> > > energy expert that by not removing the carbon dioxide from the biogas,
> one
> > > may be able to accommodate more methane in a cylinder, because methane
> > > dissolves in liquid carbon dioxide.  Thus, one compresses biogas till
> the
> > > carbon dioxide is liquified, and the methane in the mixture
> automatically
> > > dissolves in liquid carbon dioxide. I am neither an engineer, nor a
> > > physicist, but a biologist. Can any members of this group tell me
> whether
> > > the above procedure would be better than filling the cylinders with pure
> > > methane?
> > > Yours
> > > A.D.Karve
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > --
> > Mr. Paul Harris
> > Room G8, Leske Building
> > Faculty of Sciences,
> > The  University of Adelaide, Roseworthy Campus, AUSTRALIA 5371
> > Ph    : +61 8 8303 7880
> > Fax   : +61 8 8303 7979
> > mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
> > I now use "MailGuard" - if you do not get a reply please make contact
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-- 
Mr. Paul Harris
Room G8, Leske Building
Faculty of Sciences,
The  University of Adelaide, Roseworthy Campus, AUSTRALIA 5371
Ph    : +61 8 8303 7880
Fax   : +61 8 8303 7979
mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
I now use "MailGuard" - if you do not get a reply please make contact
again (by fax?)
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
Member IOBB http://www.iobbnet.org/drupal/

CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
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