[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14

Wed Oct 24 13:44:44 EDT 2007

Hey - what's wrong with the National Enquirer as a good source of reliable
scientific info? Why, after all, that pub was the first to verify an
offspring from a human and a Martian!

Mel

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. the chicken coupe (Zietsman, Rex)
>    2. Re: the chicken coupe (Duncan Martin)
>    3. Re: the chicken coupe (Zietsman, Rex)
>    4. Re: the chicken coupe (Adri?n Mat?)
>    5. Re: Biogas use in Assyria (keith at journeytoforever.org)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:03:22 +0200
> From: "Zietsman, Rex" <Rex at Process.co.za>
> Subject: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<15158807F724CB4593BF508C151108CC016A1DF3 at scalpel.imsgroup.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I have a National Enquirer June 1980 article on the Harold Bate chicken
> coupe saga. Bate drove a 1953 Hillman "up to 75 miles per hour". He
> offered conversion kits for $33. There were follow up articles by Mother
> Earth News Issue #8 of March 1971 and Issue #10 of July 1971. He ran his
> digester at 60 psi and filled gas bottles with the gas.
>
> Rex
>
> snip
> Duncan,
>
> I remember seeing in a BBC news back in the 80?s of a
> guy that was running his car a Vauxhall 1950's vintage
> with biogas he was making with cow manure in his barn
> and then he was compressing it and carrying a portable
> CNG tank in the trunk. I remember that in the
> interview he was ask if he was not afraid of running
> out of manure. He replied: I don?t think so.
>
> Alejandro Bustamante
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:58:05 +0100
> From: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
> To: "Zietsman, Rex" <Rex at Process.co.za>,	<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <016f01c81617$a8d50210$8883fea9 at Dell1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Rex, Alex and all
>
> That sounds like the source of the widely-known version of the story - the
> same man too. Thanks for the reference.
>
> I also dug out an earlier story  of a man (possibly not Mr Bates -
> reference
> lost!) with a large LP gasbag on the car roof - and no doubt dreadful
> aerodymanics. Perhaps the NE story refers to Mk II? Or a wholly separate
> project?
>
> Anyway, if this 'conversation' relates to the AD entry in Wikipaedia, lets
> not base it on press stories - and especially not on the NE!
>
> Duncan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zietsman, Rex" <Rex at Process.co.za>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:03 AM
> Subject: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
>
>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> I have a National Enquirer June 1980 article on the Harold Bate chicken
>> coupe saga. Bate drove a 1953 Hillman "up to 75 miles per hour". He
>> offered conversion kits for $33. There were follow up articles by Mother
>> Earth News Issue #8 of March 1971 and Issue #10 of July 1971. He ran his
>> digester at 60 psi and filled gas bottles with the gas.
>>
>> Rex
>>
>> snip
>> Duncan,
>>
>> I remember seeing in a BBC news back in the 80?s of a
>> guy that was running his car a Vauxhall 1950's vintage
>> with biogas he was making with cow manure in his barn
>> and then he was compressing it and carrying a portable
>> CNG tank in the trunk. I remember that in the
>> interview he was ask if he was not afraid of running
>> out of manure. He replied: I don?t think so.
>>
>> Alejandro Bustamante
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.6/1086 - Release Date:
>> 22/10/2007 19:57
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:13:17 +0200
> From: "Zietsman, Rex" <Rex at Process.co.za>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
> To: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>,
> 	<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<15158807F724CB4593BF508C151108CC016A2009 at scalpel.imsgroup.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> I can send the articles to anyone who wants them. The NE article is
> superficial while the Mother Earth News articles, the second one in
> particular, is far more in depth complete with photos, etc.
>
> Rex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duncan Martin [mailto:duncanjmartin at eircom.net]
> Sent: 24 October 2007 09:58 AM
> To: Zietsman, Rex; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
>
> Rex, Alex and all
>
> That sounds like the source of the widely-known version of the story -
> the
> same man too. Thanks for the reference.
>
> I also dug out an earlier story  of a man (possibly not Mr Bates -
> reference
> lost!) with a large LP gasbag on the car roof - and no doubt dreadful
> aerodymanics. Perhaps the NE story refers to Mk II? Or a wholly separate
>
> project?
>
> Anyway, if this 'conversation' relates to the AD entry in Wikipaedia,
> lets
> not base it on press stories - and especially not on the NE!
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:22:48 +0200
> From: Adri?n Mat? <mate_adrian at yahoo.es>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
> To: "'Zietsman, Rex'" <Rex at Process.co.za>,	"'Duncan Martin'"
> 	<duncanjmartin at eircom.net>, <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <2DE48356F26A42AEAED24610FDAACED1 at USUARIO1>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have been in this forum for a while, though remaining dormant.
> I used to be involved in MSW treatment with anaerobic digestion. Did work
> for the MSW treatment plant of Nostian (La Coru?a, Spain) for a while. I
> quit the job cause the plant was not working properly (it was too big
> -180,000tpy for the available organic matter resource in the area)..., and
> we, Spanish don?t care much about source organic separation.
>
> So..., I now work in PHOTOVOLTAIC Energy. I work for a private equity fund
> in Madrid and we have our own laboratory etc.
>
> I wonder you must be thinking why this guy is telling us his life...
> BUT,...
> the company I work now has the idea of energy generation from algae
> incineration.
>
> Is this possible, I have been googling about it and seems it's possible.
>
> Any experts in this topic?
>
> Best,
> Adrian
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] En nombre de Zietsman, Rex
> Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 24 de octubre de 2007 11:13
> Para: Duncan Martin; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Asunto: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
>
> I can send the articles to anyone who wants them. The NE article is
> superficial while the Mother Earth News articles, the second one in
> particular, is far more in depth complete with photos, etc.
>
> Rex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duncan Martin [mailto:duncanjmartin at eircom.net]
> Sent: 24 October 2007 09:58 AM
> To: Zietsman, Rex; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] the chicken coupe
>
> Rex, Alex and all
>
> That sounds like the source of the widely-known version of the story -
> the
> same man too. Thanks for the reference.
>
> I also dug out an earlier story  of a man (possibly not Mr Bates -
> reference
> lost!) with a large LP gasbag on the car roof - and no doubt dreadful
> aerodymanics. Perhaps the NE story refers to Mk II? Or a wholly separate
>
> project?
>
> Anyway, if this 'conversation' relates to the AD entry in Wikipaedia,
> lets
> not base it on press stories - and especially not on the NE!
>
> Duncan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.6/1086 - Release Date:
> 22/10/2007
> 19:57
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.6/1086 - Release Date:
> 22/10/2007
> 19:57
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:29:04 +0100 (BST)
> From: keith at journeytoforever.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas use in Assyria
> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<50586.221.80.199.130.1193228944.squirrel at journeytoforever.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello Duncan
>
> <snip>
>
>>As an example, there was quite a flurry of e-mail traffic a few years ago
> about a British inventor who had succeeded in running a car on biogas.
> Being British myself and old enough to recognise ancient car models that
> others might have never heard of, I checked the source. It was a story in,
> I think, the Daily Mirror, dating from the Second World War.
>>
>>Some bright spark and a large bag of digested chicken manure on the roof
> of his car (an Austin A30, if I recall correctly). All very well -- but I
> wonder what the range was before he had to stop for the bag to refill? And
> I wonder what the weight of manure would do to his fuel efficiency when
> going uphill? Not to mention the effect of wind drag at any speed above a
> crawl. In fact, with the wind behind him and a full bag of gas, he could
> probably have switched the engine off - and "sailed" along! In a head
> wind, he might well have gone backwards.
>>
>>Someone had raked up this story and republished it on the Internet,
> without a date or attribution, giving the impression of a recent advance
> -- and without any mention of the limitations of his "invention". A
> typical Internet story, in fact.
>
> :-)
>
> Your memory errs, on several counts.
>
> It was a 1953 Hillman, not an Austin A30. The inventor's name was Harold
> Bate, and he didn't put a large bag of digested chicken manure on the
> roof, he had a small tank of compressed methane in the boot (trunk).
>
> It wasn't the Daily Mirror, and it didn't date from the Second World War.
> The story was published in the National Enquirer of June 1970, titled
> "Chicken Manure Fuel", also in Mother Earth News, Issue #8, March 1971,
> "Harold Bate and his Marvelous Chicken-powered Car", and MEN Issue #10,
> July 1971, "The Marvelous Chicken-Powered Car".
>
> Bate produced biogas from digested chicken manure, compressed the gas and
> ran his car on it using a carburettor attachment. His Hillman did 75mph on
> biogas. The British Ministry of Transport checked it out and said it
> "works perfectly".
>
> We were the ones who raked up the story (all three of them) and put it on
> the Internet, in April 2000, complete with dates and attributions, and
> photographs.
>
> It's here:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html
> "Put a chicken in your tank"
>
> Not an apocryphal urban myth, all quite true, nothing preposterous about
> it. It still raises quite a lot of interest, that page has about a
> thousand viewers a month.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Duncan J Martin
>
> Centre Councillor
> Republic of Ireland Centre
> Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
>
> ================================
> CONTACT DETAILS
> Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
> 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
> Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
> Home: +353 505 42087
> Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
> ================================
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Marshall" <alexm at Clarke-Energy.com>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:07 AM
> Subject: [Digestion] Biogas use in Assyria
>
>
>> Hello Mailing Group,
>> I am in the process of improving the wikipedia article on anaerobic
> digestion. I have improved it enough for it now to be listed as a good
> article and am working towards getting it listed as a featured article.
> One question that has been raised relates to the widely cited example of
> biogas being used to heat bath water in Assyria in the 10th century BC.
> I cannot however find the original citation for this or how is was used.
> Does anyone know how the Assyrians we said to have capture and utilise
> biogas? I cannot find the original source of this information anywhere.
> The editorial peer review comments can be seen here:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Anaerobic_digestion#R
> eview_by_Jeff
>> I would appreciate any support in improving the article which is located
> here, technical peer reviewing would also be welcome.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion
>> Please note I have left RPS and joined Clarke Energy working in a
> business development role for Haase AD systems for biowastes and Haase
> MBT systems for mixed municipal wastes. My new contact details can be
> found below.
>> Kind regards
>> Alex Marshall
>> Product Manager- AD & MBT
>> Clarke Energy Ltd
>> Head Office, Senator Point, South Boundary Road, Knowsley Industrial
> Estate, Liverpool, L33 7RR
>> Mobile: 07917 066 242
>> Switchboard: 0151 546 4446
>> Web: www.clarke-energy.com
>> E-mail: alexm at clarke-energy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>
> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14
> *****************************************
>

Melvin S. Finstein, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of Environmental Science
 Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
Head, ArrowBio USA

105 Carmel Road
Wheeling, WV 26003
(304) 242-0341
Email: finstein at envsci.rutgers.edu
Skype: melvinfinstein