[Digestion] Urban myths

Wed Oct 24 19:39:00 EDT 2007

Thank you for the correction Keith

I seem to have merged two stories. The one that was disseminated via the 
internet was evidently yours;  much of the one that I was recollecting was 
an older one, which I think did date from WW2 - I am fairly sure it existed 
but I no longer have the source. Maybe MkI and MkII from the same inventor? 
Or maybe independent? (But the more I think about, the more sure I am that 
the car in question was something earlier than the A30!)

You evidently did the research and checked it out before posting it, so I 
was wrong to cite it as an example of an ill-founded story appearing on the 
internet. When I checked it out, I only found the NE story as a source.

However, I think one of my key points stands: the NE story didn't reflect 
the vintage of the 'invention'? That's tyoical of many 'news' stories on the 
internet.

One further point: I didn't mean to suggest that internet reports of a 
biogas-powered car were an urban myth, merely that internet reports often 
have shaky foundations or none at all. I was aware that this story was 
'real' - but I was under the impression that the NE story was the direct 
source of its appearance on the internet. My mistake!

Recall that this discourse began with rumours of biogas-powered bath-houses 
in ancient Assyria. I did suggest THAT might be an 'urban myth'*. And no-one 
has yet cited any firm evidence - the reference cited by Paul Harris says 
the story is anecdotal.

(*The biogas-powered car was merely my example of how ill-founded stories 
can become accepted truth on the internet. I might have chosen a poor 
example -- but the principle stands.)

Duncan J Martin

Centre Councillor
Republic of Ireland Centre
Chartered Institution of Wastes Management

================================
CONTACT DETAILS
Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
Home: +353 505 42087
Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
================================

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <keith at journeytoforever.org>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas use in Assyria

> Hello Duncan
>
> <snip>
>
>>As an example, there was quite a flurry of e-mail traffic a few years ago
> about a British inventor who had succeeded in running a car on biogas.
> Being British myself and old enough to recognise ancient car models that
> others might have never heard of, I checked the source. It was a story in,
> I think, the Daily Mirror, dating from the Second World War.
>>
>>Some bright spark and a large bag of digested chicken manure on the roof
> of his car (an Austin A30, if I recall correctly). All very well -- but I
> wonder what the range was before he had to stop for the bag to refill? And
> I wonder what the weight of manure would do to his fuel efficiency when
> going uphill? Not to mention the effect of wind drag at any speed above a
> crawl. In fact, with the wind behind him and a full bag of gas, he could
> probably have switched the engine off - and "sailed" along! In a head
> wind, he might well have gone backwards.
>>
>>Someone had raked up this story and republished it on the Internet,
> without a date or attribution, giving the impression of a recent advance
> -- and without any mention of the limitations of his "invention". A
> typical Internet story, in fact.
>
> :-)
>
> Your memory errs, on several counts.
>
> It was a 1953 Hillman, not an Austin A30. The inventor's name was Harold
> Bate, and he didn't put a large bag of digested chicken manure on the
> roof, he had a small tank of compressed methane in the boot (trunk).
>
> It wasn't the Daily Mirror, and it didn't date from the Second World War.
> The story was published in the National Enquirer of June 1970, titled
> "Chicken Manure Fuel", also in Mother Earth News, Issue #8, March 1971,
> "Harold Bate and his Marvelous Chicken-powered Car", and MEN Issue #10,
> July 1971, "The Marvelous Chicken-Powered Car".
>
> Bate produced biogas from digested chicken manure, compressed the gas and
> ran his car on it using a carburettor attachment. His Hillman did 75mph on
> biogas. The British Ministry of Transport checked it out and said it
> "works perfectly".
>
> We were the ones who raked up the story (all three of them) and put it on
> the Internet, in April 2000, complete with dates and attributions, and
> photographs.
>
> It's here:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html
> "Put a chicken in your tank"
>
> Not an apocryphal urban myth, all quite true, nothing preposterous about
> it. It still raises quite a lot of interest, that page has about a
> thousand viewers a month.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith Addison
> Journey to Forever
> KYOTO Pref., Japan
> http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Duncan J Martin
>
> Centre Councillor
> Republic of Ireland Centre
> Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
>
> ================================
> CONTACT DETAILS
> Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
> 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
> Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
> Home: +353 505 42087
> Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
> ================================
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Marshall" <alexm at Clarke-Energy.com>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:07 AM
> Subject: [Digestion] Biogas use in Assyria
>
>
>> Hello Mailing Group,
>> I am in the process of improving the wikipedia article on anaerobic
> digestion. I have improved it enough for it now to be listed as a good
> article and am working towards getting it listed as a featured article.
> One question that has been raised relates to the widely cited example of
> biogas being used to heat bath water in Assyria in the 10th century BC.
> I cannot however find the original citation for this or how is was used.
> Does anyone know how the Assyrians we said to have capture and utilise
> biogas? I cannot find the original source of this information anywhere.
> The editorial peer review comments can be seen here:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Anaerobic_digestion#R
> eview_by_Jeff
>> I would appreciate any support in improving the article which is located
> here, technical peer reviewing would also be welcome.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_digestion
>> Please note I have left RPS and joined Clarke Energy working in a
> business development role for Haase AD systems for biowastes and Haase
> MBT systems for mixed municipal wastes. My new contact details can be
> found below.
>> Kind regards
>> Alex Marshall
>> Product Manager- AD & MBT
>> Clarke Energy Ltd
>> Head Office, Senator Point, South Boundary Road, Knowsley Industrial
> Estate, Liverpool, L33 7RR
>> Mobile: 07917 066 242
>> Switchboard: 0151 546 4446
>> Web: www.clarke-energy.com
>> E-mail: alexm at clarke-energy.com
>
>
>
>
>
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> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
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>
>
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