[Digestion] "Bio-CNG" why not CBG?
Duncan Martin
duncanjmartin at eircom.net
Tue Sep 11 14:31:49 EDT 2007
Biogas usually means a C02/CH4 mix at around 1:2.
And it's better to avoid abbreviations, except for strictly "internal"
communication, within a specialist group.
(The original proposal (PE-CNG) was clearly intended to "make a statement",
one which I respect and agree with, so was clearly intended for external
communication. As such, however, I think it would fail in its objective,
for the multiple reasons set out in my last posting.)
So I do not myself think CBG would be a great improvement. But lets keep
the ideas flowing in!
Duncan J Martin
Chair
Republic of Ireland Centre
Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
================================
CONTACT DETAILS
Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
Home: +353 505 42087
Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bingham" <bingham at zekes.com>
To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG" why not CBG?
> What is wrong with Compressed Bio Gas CBG?
> Brent
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
> To: "Daniel Musgrove" <dmusgrove at uesolutions.com>;
> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG"
>
>
>>
>> Let's just call it Compressed Biomethane.
>>
>> Biomethane is admirably clear but fails to distinguish between the
>> compressed and low pressure varieties.
>>
>> GENERAL PRINCIPLES
>> I would prefer to keep the terminology as clear and concrete as possible
>> and
>> to avoid abstractions and abbreviations, especially abbreviations that
>> might
>> be confusing.
>>
>> Concrete terminology is generally preferable. Abstractions such as
>> "present
>> era" will never be understood outside expert circles. Moreover, like the
>> word "sustainable", they can be subverted to mean almost anything.
>>
>> The problem with any reference to CNG is that this term (and the word
>> "natural") have been used for the equivalent fossil fuel for so long that
>> it
>> will be virtually impossible to get the desired distinction clear in the
>> minds of the general public. Of course, biomethane is arguably even more
>> "natural" than fossil "natural* gas" -- but the general public needs
>> clear
>> terminology that does not depend on the arguments of experts.
>>
>> (*This is a perfect example of how an abstract term can be quite
>> ambiguous.
>> Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide and dozens of other gases are also
>> natural,
>> either because they are "naturally" present in the atmosphere or because
>> they are "natural" products of living organisms!)
>>
>> My thanks to whoever started this debate. It is really useful to get our
>> ideas clarified, using the "wisdom of the crowd", before we start
>> introducing new terminology. We will all help our shared cause if we can
>> agree on common terminology.
>>
>> Duncan Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Daniel Musgrove" <dmusgrove at uesolutions.com>
>> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG"
>>
>>
>>> While out in the field, I'm already hearing reference to "bio-CNG", or
>>> just
>>> 'renewable CNG'. For example, I believe City of Los Angeles is getting
>>> ready to study how to get their hands on 'renewable' forms of CNG or LNG
>>> for
>>> their bus and waste collection NGV fleets.
>>>
>>> I personally prefer "bio-CNG" - since in inherently refers back to the
>>> fact
>>> that it is a biologically produced form of methane. We already use
>>> 'biomethane'. Why not stick with bioCNG?
>>>
>>> Daniel Musgrove
>>> Universal Entech, LLC
>>> 3330 West Broadway Road
>>> Phoenix, AZ 85041
>>> (602) 268-8849
>>> dmusgrove at uesolutions.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of
>>> digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:25 PM
>>> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
>>>
>>> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Warren Weisman)
>>> 2. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Dr. Ann C. Wilkie)
>>> 3. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Katahdin Energy Works)
>>> 4. request for information on available biogas technology
>>> training (fest durojaiye)
>>> 5. Biogas yields for tropical energy crops (Lou Dobb)
>>> 6. Re: Biogas yields for tropical energy crops (Warren Weisman)
>>> 7. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Warren Weisman)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>> To: Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz>, digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <229131.66940.qm at web62404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>
>>> Warren Weisman
>>> USA
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>> To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Warren,
>>>> > I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>> descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>> > think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>> than the "PE".
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > James R Rankin, DVM
>>>> > Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>> > Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>> and
>>>> >> wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>> the
>>>> >> term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>> Gas to
>>>> >> distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>> >> accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>> field
>>>> >> gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>> eliminates or
>>>> >> adds to confusion.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Digestion mailing list
>>>> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 13:04:14 -0400
>>> From: "Dr. Ann C. Wilkie" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>> To: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <46E4278E.7000308 at ufl.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>
>>> _____________________
>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>>
>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Warren,
>>>>>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>>
>>>>>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>>
>>>>>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>>
>>>>>than the "PE".
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>>
>>>>>Gas to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>>
>>>>>field
>>>>>
>>>>>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>>
>>>>>eliminates or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>adds to confusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> **********************************************************************
>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel: (352)392-8699
>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax: (352)392-7008
>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail: acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>
>>> **********************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:37:43 -0100
>>> From: "Katahdin Energy Works" <KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>> To: "'Dr. Ann C. Wilkie'" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>, "'Warren Weisman'"
>>> <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <000c01c7f310$831646d0$8942d470$@net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> I would caution you against using inventive, somewhat p.c., language in
>>> your
>>> grant proposal when at some time in the future, to keep your bus
>>> running,
>>> you have to resort to gases from other sources.
>>>
>>> Other than time; there isn't all that much difference between our
>>> Manure2Energytm digesters and one using gas from ancient deposits of
>>> manure
>>> and organic matter.
>>>
>>> What may be most important are the level of emissions from the bus; and
>>> not
>>> the source of the gas. Having the 'greenest' bus on the block is almost
>>> like
>>> have the most clever vanity plate; even worse is when you are passed by
>>> one
>>> covered in solar panels!
>>>
>>> Frank J. Heller, MPA
>>> KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
>>> 12 Belmont St.
>>> Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
>>> 207.729.6090
>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Ann C.
>>> Wilkie
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:04 PM
>>> To: Warren Weisman
>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>
>>> _____________________
>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>>
>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Warren,
>>>>>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>>
>>>>>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>>
>>>>>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>>
>>>>>than the "PE".
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>>
>>>>>Gas to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>>
>>>>>field
>>>>>
>>>>>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>>
>>>>>eliminates or
>>>>>
>>>>>>>adds to confusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> **********************************************************************
>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel: (352)392-8699
>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax: (352)392-7008
>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail: acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>
>>> **********************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: fest durojaiye <durofestdot at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: [Digestion] request for information on available biogas
>>> technology training
>>> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <125828.80402.qm at web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>> I am planing to construct a digester on my farm as a
>>> way of tackling farm waste. could anyone advice me on
>>> where to go for training and consultation on digester
>>> construction and management.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
>>> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>>> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: [Digestion] Biogas yields for tropical energy crops
>>> To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <166997.62030.qm at web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>> Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list. Thanks for the very interesting
>>> resources and discussions.
>>>
>>> I have been trying to find some data on biogas yields for tropical
>>> energy
>>> crops (such as sugarcane, sweet sorghum, cassava, sweet potato, grass
>>> species, tropical sugar beet, etc...). But I can't find much.
>>>
>>> In my search I only found data on crops grown in temperate and even cold
>>> climates (Finland).
>>>
>>> E.g. Annimari Lehtom?ki: "Biogas production from energy crops and crop
>>> residues", Jyv?skyl? Studies in Biological and Environmental Sciences
>>> 163,
>>> PhD Dissertation, Faculty of Mathematics and Sciences, University of
>>> Jyv?skyl?, 2006.
>>>
>>> http://dissertations.jyu.fi/studbiol/9513925595.pdf
>>>
>>> Could anyone help me compile a list of yields for tropical crops?
>>>
>>> We could use the list for a wiki, as a basic reference.
>>>
>>>
>>> How come there are so little data on this? I don't understand.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Lou
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
>>> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
>>> Games.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas yields for tropical energy crops
>>> To: Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com>, Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <909654.48600.qm at web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there's so little and so much conflicting data
>>> is that digestion is not an exact science. A small,
>>> well-maintained digester can out-perform a big, fancy
>>> one. The second most important aspect of digestion,
>>> after an airtight environment, is the proper carbon to
>>> nitrogen ratio, which I did not see referred to in the
>>> article.
>>>
>>> Here's the volumes from "A Chinese Biogas Manual",
>>> which I consider the best source of information on
>>> digestion and biogas, since its empirical data
>>> gathered from making MILLIONS of digesters...
>>>
>>> volumes are per tonne of material:
>>>
>>> General Stable Manure 260-280 cu.m. gas 50-60% CH4
>>> Pig Manure 561 cu.m. gas
>>> Horse Manure 200-300 cu.m. gas
>>> Rice husks 615 cu.m. gas
>>> Fresh grass 630 cu.m. gas 70% CH4
>>> Flax stalks or hemp 359 cu.m. gas 59% CH4
>>> Straw 342 cu.m. gas 59% CH4
>>> Leaves from trees 210-294 cu.m. gas 58% CH4
>>> Potato plant leaves & vine, etc. 260-280 cu.m.
>>> Sunflower leaves & stalks 300 cu.m. 58% CH4
>>> Sludge 640 cu.m. 50% CH4
>>> Waste water from wine or spirits making 300-600 cu.m.
>>> 58% CH4
>>>
>>> --- Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list. Thanks for the
>>>> very interesting resources and discussions.
>>>>
>>>> I have been trying to find some data on biogas
>>>> yields for tropical energy crops (such as sugarcane,
>>>> sweet sorghum, cassava, sweet potato, grass species,
>>>> tropical sugar beet, etc...). But I can't find much.
>>>>
>>>> In my search I only found data on crops grown in
>>>> temperate and even cold climates (Finland).
>>>>
>>>> E.g. Annimari Lehtom?ki: "Biogas production from
>>>> energy crops and crop residues", Jyv?skyl? Studies
>>>> in Biological and Environmental Sciences 163, PhD
>>>> Dissertation, Faculty of Mathematics and Sciences,
>>>> University of Jyv?skyl?, 2006.
>>>>
>>>> http://dissertations.jyu.fi/studbiol/9513925595.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Could anyone help me compile a list of yields for
>>>> tropical crops?
>>>>
>>>> We could use the list for a wiki, as a basic
>>>> reference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How come there are so little data on this? I don't
>>>> understand.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
>>>> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's
>>>> economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
>>> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>>> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>> To: fjheller at verizon.net, "'Dr. Ann C. Wilkie'" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>
>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> Message-ID: <483260.99783.qm at web62412.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been a large engine mechanic for nearly 18
>>> years. I have a vague understanding of fuel systems,
>>> including spark-ignited compressed gas systems.
>>>
>>> The CO2 released during combustion of present era
>>> biogas is the same amount the plants would release if
>>> they were left to decompose normally. This amount is
>>> more than offset by the amount of CO2 the plants
>>> absorb for food during their life cycle. Hence, if we
>>> burn present-era biogas in an engine, we are
>>> contributing zero net greenhouse gas emissions. Not
>>> little, but ZERO. In addition to running cleaner and
>>> quieter and cooler.
>>>
>>> The CO2 from field gas is from an entirely different
>>> geological age in the earth's history. That CO2 is not
>>> supposed to be released into our present atmosphere.
>>> This makes a profound difference between biogas and
>>> Natural Gas in environmental benefits.
>>>
>>> That said. For this bus we will be using the 100 MMscf
>>> of biogas currently being flared at our local
>>> wastewater treatment facility, so we are capturing
>>> "free" biogas that would ordinarily be wasted. I'm
>>> pretty sure 100 MMscf will run one bus and we will not
>>> be resorting to using other fuels.
>>>
>>> If our local government would like to add more buses,
>>> we will build some food waste digesters to generate
>>> the fuel.
>>>
>>> Warren Weisman
>>> USA
>>>
>>> -- Katahdin Energy Works
>>> <KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would caution you against using inventive,
>>>> somewhat p.c., language in your
>>>> grant proposal when at some time in the future, to
>>>> keep your bus running,
>>>> you have to resort to gases from other sources.
>>>>
>>>> Other than time; there isn't all that much
>>>> difference between our
>>>> Manure2Energytm digesters and one using gas from
>>>> ancient deposits of manure
>>>> and organic matter.
>>>>
>>>> What may be most important are the level of
>>>> emissions from the bus; and not
>>>> the source of the gas. Having the 'greenest' bus on
>>>> the block is almost like
>>>> have the most clever vanity plate; even worse is
>>>> when you are passed by one
>>>> covered in solar panels!
>>>>
>>>> Frank J. Heller, MPA
>>>> KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
>>>> 12 Belmont St.
>>>> Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
>>>> 207.729.6090
>>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Dr. Ann C. Wilkie
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:04 PM
>>>> To: Warren Weisman
>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>>
>>>> _____________________
>>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG.
>>>> This
>>>> > makes since unless CBG already stands for
>>>> something
>>>> > I'm not aware of?
>>>> >
>>>> > Warren Weisman
>>>> > USA
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>> >>
>>>> >>----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>> >>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>> >><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>Warren,
>>>> >>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>> >>
>>>> >>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>> >>
>>>> >>than the "PE".
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>Jim
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>> >>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>> >>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>> >>
>>>> >>and
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>> >>
>>>> >>the
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Gas to
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>> >>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>> >>
>>>> >>field
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>> >>
>>>> >>eliminates or
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>adds to confusion.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>>Digestion mailing list
>>>> >>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> >
>>>> >>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> >>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> >>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>Digestion mailing list
>>>> >>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> >
>>>> >>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> >>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> >>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>> > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network
>>>> Research Panel today!
>>>>
>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Digestion mailing list
>>>> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>> **********************************************************************
>>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel:
>>>> (352)392-8699
>>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax:
>>>> (352)392-7008
>>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail:
>>>> acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology
>>>> Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>> ________
>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's
>>> updated
>>> for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>>> http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>
>>> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date:
>>> 03/09/2007
>>> 09:31
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date:
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>> 5:43 PM
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 03/09/2007
> 09:31
>
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