[Digestion] Sorry! Its Biomethane!
Ken Calvert
renertech at xtra.co.nz
Tue Sep 11 18:04:01 EDT 2007
Gentlemen, it has been an interesting debate but I fear a little late. If
you run a Google on all these terms that you have been batting around you
will find that Biomethane tops the list,there are already 35,000 plus refs
to "Biomethane" Now that is one word, in brackets, so there is no
confusion as there might be with two words on Google.
The fact that it is methane means that it has been cleaned up and is no
longer biogas, and I have a feeling that the question about pressures is
not as important as you make it out to be.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
To: "Bingham" <bingham at zekes.com>; <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG" why not CBG?
> Biogas usually means a C02/CH4 mix at around 1:2.
>
> And it's better to avoid abbreviations, except for strictly "internal"
> communication, within a specialist group.
>
> (The original proposal (PE-CNG) was clearly intended to "make a
> statement",
> one which I respect and agree with, so was clearly intended for external
> communication. As such, however, I think it would fail in its objective,
> for the multiple reasons set out in my last posting.)
>
> So I do not myself think CBG would be a great improvement. But lets keep
> the ideas flowing in!
>
> Duncan J Martin
>
> Chair
> Republic of Ireland Centre
> Chartered Institution of Wastes Management
>
> ================================
> CONTACT DETAILS
> Duncan J Martin, PhD, CEng, CSci, MIEI, MCIWM, MIChemE
> 24 Townsfield, Cloughjordan, N Tipperary, Ireland
> Mobile: +353 86 8377 906
> Home: +353 505 42087
> Email: duncanjmartin at eircom.net
> ================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bingham" <bingham at zekes.com>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG" why not CBG?
>
>
>> What is wrong with Compressed Bio Gas CBG?
>> Brent
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
>> To: "Daniel Musgrove" <dmusgrove at uesolutions.com>;
>> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG"
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Let's just call it Compressed Biomethane.
>>>
>>> Biomethane is admirably clear but fails to distinguish between the
>>> compressed and low pressure varieties.
>>>
>>> GENERAL PRINCIPLES
>>> I would prefer to keep the terminology as clear and concrete as possible
>>> and
>>> to avoid abstractions and abbreviations, especially abbreviations that
>>> might
>>> be confusing.
>>>
>>> Concrete terminology is generally preferable. Abstractions such as
>>> "present
>>> era" will never be understood outside expert circles. Moreover, like
>>> the
>>> word "sustainable", they can be subverted to mean almost anything.
>>>
>>> The problem with any reference to CNG is that this term (and the word
>>> "natural") have been used for the equivalent fossil fuel for so long
>>> that
>>> it
>>> will be virtually impossible to get the desired distinction clear in the
>>> minds of the general public. Of course, biomethane is arguably even more
>>> "natural" than fossil "natural* gas" -- but the general public needs
>>> clear
>>> terminology that does not depend on the arguments of experts.
>>>
>>> (*This is a perfect example of how an abstract term can be quite
>>> ambiguous.
>>> Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide and dozens of other gases are also
>>> natural,
>>> either because they are "naturally" present in the atmosphere or because
>>> they are "natural" products of living organisms!)
>>>
>>> My thanks to whoever started this debate. It is really useful to get our
>>> ideas clarified, using the "wisdom of the crowd", before we start
>>> introducing new terminology. We will all help our shared cause if we can
>>> agree on common terminology.
>>>
>>> Duncan Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Daniel Musgrove" <dmusgrove at uesolutions.com>
>>> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] "Bio-CNG"
>>>
>>>
>>>> While out in the field, I'm already hearing reference to "bio-CNG", or
>>>> just
>>>> 'renewable CNG'. For example, I believe City of Los Angeles is getting
>>>> ready to study how to get their hands on 'renewable' forms of CNG or
>>>> LNG
>>>> for
>>>> their bus and waste collection NGV fleets.
>>>>
>>>> I personally prefer "bio-CNG" - since in inherently refers back to the
>>>> fact
>>>> that it is a biologically produced form of methane. We already use
>>>> 'biomethane'. Why not stick with bioCNG?
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Musgrove
>>>> Universal Entech, LLC
>>>> 3330 West Broadway Road
>>>> Phoenix, AZ 85041
>>>> (602) 268-8849
>>>> dmusgrove at uesolutions.com
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:25 PM
>>>> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
>>>>
>>>> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Warren Weisman)
>>>> 2. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Dr. Ann C. Wilkie)
>>>> 3. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Katahdin Energy Works)
>>>> 4. request for information on available biogas technology
>>>> training (fest durojaiye)
>>>> 5. Biogas yields for tropical energy crops (Lou Dobb)
>>>> 6. Re: Biogas yields for tropical energy crops (Warren Weisman)
>>>> 7. Re: PE-CNG A better name! (Warren Weisman)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>> To: Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz>, digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <229131.66940.qm at web62404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>>
>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>> To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>> <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Warren,
>>>>> > I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>> descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>> > think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>> than the "PE".
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Jim
>>>>> >
>>>>> > James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>> > Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>> > Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>> Gas to
>>>>> >> distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>> >> accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>> field
>>>>> >> gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>> eliminates or
>>>>> >> adds to confusion.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Digestion mailing list
>>>>> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
>>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 13:04:14 -0400
>>>> From: "Dr. Ann C. Wilkie" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>> To: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <46E4278E.7000308 at ufl.edu>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>>
>>>> _____________________
>>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>>> USA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>>>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Warren,
>>>>>>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>than the "PE".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>>>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>>>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gas to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>>>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>field
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>eliminates or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>adds to confusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
>>>>> today!
>>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel: (352)392-8699
>>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax: (352)392-7008
>>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail: acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>>
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:37:43 -0100
>>>> From: "Katahdin Energy Works" <KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>> To: "'Dr. Ann C. Wilkie'" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>, "'Warren Weisman'"
>>>> <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <000c01c7f310$831646d0$8942d470$@net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>
>>>> I would caution you against using inventive, somewhat p.c., language in
>>>> your
>>>> grant proposal when at some time in the future, to keep your bus
>>>> running,
>>>> you have to resort to gases from other sources.
>>>>
>>>> Other than time; there isn't all that much difference between our
>>>> Manure2Energytm digesters and one using gas from ancient deposits of
>>>> manure
>>>> and organic matter.
>>>>
>>>> What may be most important are the level of emissions from the bus; and
>>>> not
>>>> the source of the gas. Having the 'greenest' bus on the block is almost
>>>> like
>>>> have the most clever vanity plate; even worse is when you are passed by
>>>> one
>>>> covered in solar panels!
>>>>
>>>> Frank J. Heller, MPA
>>>> KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
>>>> 12 Belmont St.
>>>> Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
>>>> 207.729.6090
>>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Ann C.
>>>> Wilkie
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:04 PM
>>>> To: Warren Weisman
>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>>
>>>> _____________________
>>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG. This
>>>>> makes since unless CBG already stands for something
>>>>> I'm not aware of?
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>>> USA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>>>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Warren,
>>>>>>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>than the "PE".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>>>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>>>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gas to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>>>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>field
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>eliminates or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>adds to confusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
>>>>> today!
>>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel: (352)392-8699
>>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax: (352)392-7008
>>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail: acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>>
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: fest durojaiye <durofestdot at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: [Digestion] request for information on available biogas
>>>> technology training
>>>> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <125828.80402.qm at web42105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> I am planing to construct a digester on my farm as a
>>>> way of tackling farm waste. could anyone advice me on
>>>> where to go for training and consultation on digester
>>>> construction and management.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone
>>>> who
>>>> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>>>> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: [Digestion] Biogas yields for tropical energy crops
>>>> To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <166997.62030.qm at web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list. Thanks for the very interesting
>>>> resources and discussions.
>>>>
>>>> I have been trying to find some data on biogas yields for tropical
>>>> energy
>>>> crops (such as sugarcane, sweet sorghum, cassava, sweet potato, grass
>>>> species, tropical sugar beet, etc...). But I can't find much.
>>>>
>>>> In my search I only found data on crops grown in temperate and even
>>>> cold
>>>> climates (Finland).
>>>>
>>>> E.g. Annimari Lehtom?ki: "Biogas production from energy crops and crop
>>>> residues", Jyv?skyl? Studies in Biological and Environmental Sciences
>>>> 163,
>>>> PhD Dissertation, Faculty of Mathematics and Sciences, University of
>>>> Jyv?skyl?, 2006.
>>>>
>>>> http://dissertations.jyu.fi/studbiol/9513925595.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Could anyone help me compile a list of yields for tropical crops?
>>>>
>>>> We could use the list for a wiki, as a basic reference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How come there are so little data on this? I don't understand.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
>>>> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
>>>> Games.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 6
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas yields for tropical energy crops
>>>> To: Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com>, Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <909654.48600.qm at web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think there's so little and so much conflicting data
>>>> is that digestion is not an exact science. A small,
>>>> well-maintained digester can out-perform a big, fancy
>>>> one. The second most important aspect of digestion,
>>>> after an airtight environment, is the proper carbon to
>>>> nitrogen ratio, which I did not see referred to in the
>>>> article.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the volumes from "A Chinese Biogas Manual",
>>>> which I consider the best source of information on
>>>> digestion and biogas, since its empirical data
>>>> gathered from making MILLIONS of digesters...
>>>>
>>>> volumes are per tonne of material:
>>>>
>>>> General Stable Manure 260-280 cu.m. gas 50-60% CH4
>>>> Pig Manure 561 cu.m. gas
>>>> Horse Manure 200-300 cu.m. gas
>>>> Rice husks 615 cu.m. gas
>>>> Fresh grass 630 cu.m. gas 70% CH4
>>>> Flax stalks or hemp 359 cu.m. gas 59% CH4
>>>> Straw 342 cu.m. gas 59% CH4
>>>> Leaves from trees 210-294 cu.m. gas 58% CH4
>>>> Potato plant leaves & vine, etc. 260-280 cu.m.
>>>> Sunflower leaves & stalks 300 cu.m. 58% CH4
>>>> Sludge 640 cu.m. 50% CH4
>>>> Waste water from wine or spirits making 300-600 cu.m.
>>>> 58% CH4
>>>>
>>>> --- Lou Dobb <congoagriculture at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list. Thanks for the
>>>>> very interesting resources and discussions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been trying to find some data on biogas
>>>>> yields for tropical energy crops (such as sugarcane,
>>>>> sweet sorghum, cassava, sweet potato, grass species,
>>>>> tropical sugar beet, etc...). But I can't find much.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my search I only found data on crops grown in
>>>>> temperate and even cold climates (Finland).
>>>>>
>>>>> E.g. Annimari Lehtom?ki: "Biogas production from
>>>>> energy crops and crop residues", Jyv?skyl? Studies
>>>>> in Biological and Environmental Sciences 163, PhD
>>>>> Dissertation, Faculty of Mathematics and Sciences,
>>>>> University of Jyv?skyl?, 2006.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://dissertations.jyu.fi/studbiol/9513925595.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Could anyone help me compile a list of yields for
>>>>> tropical crops?
>>>>>
>>>>> We could use the list for a wiki, as a basic
>>>>> reference.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How come there are so little data on this? I don't
>>>>> understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
>>>>> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's
>>>>> economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
>>>> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>>>> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 7
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>> To: fjheller at verizon.net, "'Dr. Ann C. Wilkie'" <acwilkie at ufl.edu>
>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> Message-ID: <483260.99783.qm at web62412.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been a large engine mechanic for nearly 18
>>>> years. I have a vague understanding of fuel systems,
>>>> including spark-ignited compressed gas systems.
>>>>
>>>> The CO2 released during combustion of present era
>>>> biogas is the same amount the plants would release if
>>>> they were left to decompose normally. This amount is
>>>> more than offset by the amount of CO2 the plants
>>>> absorb for food during their life cycle. Hence, if we
>>>> burn present-era biogas in an engine, we are
>>>> contributing zero net greenhouse gas emissions. Not
>>>> little, but ZERO. In addition to running cleaner and
>>>> quieter and cooler.
>>>>
>>>> The CO2 from field gas is from an entirely different
>>>> geological age in the earth's history. That CO2 is not
>>>> supposed to be released into our present atmosphere.
>>>> This makes a profound difference between biogas and
>>>> Natural Gas in environmental benefits.
>>>>
>>>> That said. For this bus we will be using the 100 MMscf
>>>> of biogas currently being flared at our local
>>>> wastewater treatment facility, so we are capturing
>>>> "free" biogas that would ordinarily be wasted. I'm
>>>> pretty sure 100 MMscf will run one bus and we will not
>>>> be resorting to using other fuels.
>>>>
>>>> If our local government would like to add more buses,
>>>> we will build some food waste digesters to generate
>>>> the fuel.
>>>>
>>>> Warren Weisman
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>> -- Katahdin Energy Works
>>>> <KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would caution you against using inventive,
>>>>> somewhat p.c., language in your
>>>>> grant proposal when at some time in the future, to
>>>>> keep your bus running,
>>>>> you have to resort to gases from other sources.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than time; there isn't all that much
>>>>> difference between our
>>>>> Manure2Energytm digesters and one using gas from
>>>>> ancient deposits of manure
>>>>> and organic matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> What may be most important are the level of
>>>>> emissions from the bus; and not
>>>>> the source of the gas. Having the 'greenest' bus on
>>>>> the block is almost like
>>>>> have the most clever vanity plate; even worse is
>>>>> when you are passed by one
>>>>> covered in solar panels!
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank J. Heller, MPA
>>>>> KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
>>>>> 12 Belmont St.
>>>>> Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
>>>>> 207.729.6090
>>>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Dr. Ann C. Wilkie
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:04 PM
>>>>> To: Warren Weisman
>>>>> Cc: digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG A better name!
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> How about RNG-renewable natural gas?
>>>>>
>>>>> _____________________
>>>>> Warren Weisman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > I think it was Alejandro who offered CBG and CNG.
>>>>> This
>>>>> > makes since unless CBG already stands for
>>>>> something
>>>>> > I'm not aware of?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Warren Weisman
>>>>> > USA
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --- Ken Calvert <renertech at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>What about 'Bio-CNG'??
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >>From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
>>>>> >>To: "Warren Weisman" <weiswar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>> >><digestion at listserv.repp.org>
>>>>> >>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>>> >>Subject: Re: [Digestion] PE-CNG and CNG
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>Warren,
>>>>> >>>I would say if you feel "biogas" isn't
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>descriptive, what about "Bio-CNG". I
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>think it would be more immediately recognisable
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>than the "PE".
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>Jim
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>James R Rankin, DVM
>>>>> >>>Cedarcrest Farms, Inc
>>>>> >>>Faunsdale, AL USA
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>I'm writing a grant for our biogas bus project
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>and
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>wanted to get the group's opinion on my use of
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>the
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>term PE-CNG for Present Era Compressed Natural
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Gas to
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>distinguish compressed biogas from the already
>>>>> >>>>accepted term Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), or
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>field
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>gas, a fossil fuel. Let me know if this
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>eliminates or
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>adds to confusion.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>>Digestion mailing list
>>>>> >>>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> >>>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> >>>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>Digestion mailing list
>>>>> >>Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> >>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> >>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ________
>>>>> > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network
>>>>> Research Panel today!
>>>>>
>>>> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Digestion mailing list
>>>>> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>> Dr. Ann C. Wilkie Tel:
>>>>> (352)392-8699
>>>>> Soil and Water Science Department Fax:
>>>>> (352)392-7008
>>>>> University of Florida-IFAS
>>>>> P.O. Box 110960 E-mail:
>>>>> acwilkie at ufl.edu
>>>>> Gainesville, FL 32611-0960
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Campus location: Environmental Microbiology
>>>>> Laboratory (Bldg. 246).
>>>>> http://campusmap.ufl.edu/
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> BioEnergy and Sustainable Technology Society
>>>>> http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>> ________
>>>> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's
>>>> updated
>>>> for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
>>>> http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>>
>>>> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
>>>> *****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date:
>>>> 03/09/2007
>>>> 09:31
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date:
>>> 9/10/2007
>>> 5:43 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date:
>> 03/09/2007
>> 09:31
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
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