[Digestion] Collection units

Thu Sep 13 19:01:27 EDT 2007

Hello.
I have established a lab scale anaerobic digester. I have used this to
test materials for anaerobic digestion. I obtained some results. My
results showed that freshly mowen grass produced the most gas.

 however  my way of measuring the biogas isn't very accurate. I want
to measure the gas by putting it to the top of a small tank of water
and calculating the amount of water displaced as the gas produced.

However i have no idea how to build such a collection unit as i need
it to be small and i need 3 of them.

Hope someone has a good idea.
Thanks.

Stephen cullinan

On 9/12/07, digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
<digestion-request at listserv.repp.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Biogas from sewage plants (Jim and Amy Rankin)
>    2. Re: Mixing in digesters? (frank)
>    3. Re: Mixing in digesters? (Katahdin Energy Works)
>    4. Re: Mixing in digesters? (Warren Weisman)
>    5. Re: Mixing in digesters? (frank)
>    6. Confusing abbreviations (Duncan Martin)
>    7. Re: Confusing abbreviations (Warren Weisman)
>    8. Ideal pH and temperature (Warren Weisman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:39:18 -0500
> From: "Jim and Amy Rankin" <ajrankin at westal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas from sewage plants
> To: "Montero Arguedas Jorge Mario" <JMonteroA at ice.go.cr>,
> 	<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <5B1A086EC1114D74B325EAD04E4D3773 at RankinPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Jorge,
>
> I may be wrong, but I believe the primary problem with anaerobic digestion
> of city sewerage is the dilute feedstock which leads to large capital costs
> to construct large digesters with relatively low gas output/volume due to
> the feedstock being largely water.  So where anaerobic digestion is used, a
> smaller, cheaper digester handles the settled solids and aerobic processes
> are used for the rest.
>
> This model has been in existance for many many years, so there should be
> some good  data out there on what yields can be achieved.  One plant that I
> toured was using the biogas from the sludge to run engines that pumped the
> air for the aeration system of the rest of the plant.  This avoided the
> inefficiencies of electrical generation and utilization since the aeration
> was a constant energy requirement of the plant as a whole.
>
> I do think that anaerobic treatment has not gotten the consideration it
> perhaps deserves in the waste water treatment industry which generally seems
> to think aerobic first and then when that fails due to a high strength
> waste, then finally considers anaerobic.
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Montero Arguedas Jorge Mario" <JMonteroA at ice.go.cr>
> To: <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 8:54 AM
> Subject: [Digestion] Biogas from sewage plants
>
>
> >I ve tried convincing our municipal plant engineers of this.  What could
> > be better than taking care of having the plants electricity bill taken
> > care of by the plant itself.
> >
> > They say it impossible.  That the only viable feasible biogas production
> > way would be a UASB (or similar) to digest the sludge from the aerobic
> > treatment tanks.
> >
> > Any comments,  further ideas on this ?
> >
> >  Montero PE, MS
> >
> > Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad
> > Costa Rica
> >
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> > [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] En nombre de Katahdin
> > Energy Works
> > Enviado el: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:07 AM
> > Para: g_vishwas at vsnl.com; digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > Asunto: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 16
> >
> > One wonders what the cost to enhance/upgrade our local sewerage
> > treatment
> > plants into bio-gas production facilities would be...it is worthy of a
> > national program..what about the distribution network for the gas....or
> > should electric production be integrated into sewerage treatment plants?
> >
> >
> > Surely some energy wonk 'out there' must be doing a paper on these costs
> > vies a vi the cost of corn to methanol, for example. ..... are sewerage
> > treatment plants an unexploited energy reserve?
> >
> > Frank J. Heller, MPA
> > KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
> > 12 Belmont St.
> > Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
> > 207.729.6090
> > http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> > [mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Vishwas
> > Gokhale
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:47 AM
> > To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 16
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:29:44 -0700
> From: frank <frank at compostlab.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <46E813F8.4070802 at compostlab.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dear Frank, and Biogas people,
>
> Just a few questions if you don't mind.
>
> Katahdin Energy Works wrote:
>
> >Depends on the design.
> >
> >We do tanks, and depending on the % of solids may include a bubbler in the
> >bottom of the tank.
> >
> >
> What percent solids value do you to make this decision and what do you
> consider the optimum % solids?
> And is the bubbler recirculating the gas that is produced in the tank?
>
> >Other tanks include a heating core and agitator to have a uniform
> >temperature.
> >
> >Temps are a concern; as is exposure to the two key microbe
> >groups--Acetogenic and methanogenic. We use imbedded colonies to maximize
> >exposure.
> >
> >
> What is the optimum temperature you try to maintain and will the microbe
> activity be able to produce the needed heat without the need for outside
> heat source?
>
> >There is a natural bubbling that occurs as solids sink to the bottom and
> get
> >acting upon.
> >
> >CHD lagoons have a patented circulation system w/pumps and baffles.
> >
> >I haven't check evaluations of agitator systems; remember injection is from
> >the bottom and that provides mixing; and digestion is from the bottom to
> the
> >top.
> >
> >In two tank designs; the acidification process is often a 'fast' one with a
> >lot of agitation; while the methane one sees solids somewhat settling and
> >methane given off bubbling to the top.
> >
> >
> What is the optimum pH value for the system to work at optimum conditions?
> Can the pH be used to control the CO2 given off?  Higher pH to keep the
> CO2 in solution , perhaps adjusting at the end?  to reduce the CO2 in
> the out gas.
>
>
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >
> It helps a lot as I am on a steep learning curve.
> And the top of Mt Katahdin is my favorite place on Earth.
>
> Thanks
> Frank
>
>
>
> >Frank J. Heller, MPA
> >KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
> >12 Belmont St.
> >Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
> >207.729.6090
> >http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> >[mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:16 PM
> >To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> >Subject: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> >
> >   Someone just posted that  "well-stirred digesters with mixed contents
> >will always out-perform single feedstock digesters by volume". Sometime
> >back, when I asked about having a mobile digester (to provide fuel for a
> > motorhome and process waste), I was told that it would not work because
> >disturbing the digester would cause it to stop working.
> >    So is mixing bad or good?
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank Shields
> Soil Control Lab
> 42 Hangar way
> Watsonville, CA  95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> frank at compostlab.com
> www.compostlab.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:49:50 -0100
> From: "Katahdin Energy Works" <KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> To: <frank at compostlab.com>,	<Digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000301c7f543$caa603c0$5ff20b40$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Dear Frank, and Biogas people,
>
> Just a few questions if you don't mind.
>
> Katahdin Energy Works wrote:
>
> >Depends on the design.
> >
> >We do tanks, and depending on the % of solids may include a bubbler in the
> >bottom of the tank.
> >
> >
> What percent solids value do you to make this decision and what do you
> consider the optimum % solids?---Sort of depends on where the manure is
> coming from  and how much we emulsify it. Beef cattle have up to 23% solids,
> while diary is looser, we like 11-12% ...don't forget the role of bedding in
> all this!
>
> And is the bubbler recirculating the gas that is produced in the tank?...no,
> liquid separated from the spent manure slurry. Gas goes through scrubbers,
> why get it wet again?
>
> >Other tanks include a heating core and agitator to have a uniform
> >temperature.
> >
> >Temps are a concern; as is exposure to the two key microbe
> >groups--Acetogenic and methanogenic. We use imbedded colonies to maximize
> >exposure.
> >
> >
> What is the optimum temperature you try to maintain and will the microbe
> activity be able to produce the needed heat without the need for outside
> heat source?-----Summer use is 135 F(high temp, fast cycle); winter use is
> 95-100 F.  Tanks are insulated and hold heat from the preheater.
>
> >There is a natural bubbling that occurs as solids sink to the bottom and
> get
> >acting upon.
> >
> >CHD lagoons have a patented circulation system w/pumps and baffles.
> >
> >I haven't check evaluations of agitator systems; remember injection is from
> >the bottom and that provides mixing; and digestion is from the bottom to
> the
> >top.
> >
> >In two tank designs; the acidification process is often a 'fast' one with a
> >lot of agitation; while the methane one sees solids somewhat settling and
> >methane given off bubbling to the top.
> >
> >
> What is the optimum pH value for the system to work at optimum
> conditions?...about 7.5, remember in Maine we have sawdust bedding and that
> lowers the pH.
>
> Can the pH be used to control the CO2 given off?....depends on the microbe
> strain, I think?
>
> Higher pH to keep the CO2 in solution , perhaps adjusting at the end?  to
> reduce the CO2 in
> the out gas. Good question; really haven't adjusted the pH levels to account
> for CO2; we are mostly seeking to shorten the digestion cycle so we can
> process more manure with a smaller tank faster; and to increase gas yields.
> We are trying to sell the CO2 to a greenhouse or it is just scrubbed out. ?
> Are you going for REC's?
>
>
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >
> It helps a lot as I am on a steep learning curve.
> And the top of Mt Katahdin is my favorite place on Earth.
>
> It is nice; and the trail has been improved. Really haven't be up it, in
> years. Thanks for reminding me!
>
> Thanks
> Frank
>
>
>
> >Frank J. Heller, MPA
> >KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
> >12 Belmont St.
> >Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
> >207.729.6090
> >http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> >[mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:16 PM
> >To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> >Subject: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> >
> >   Someone just posted that  "well-stirred digesters with mixed contents
> >will always out-perform single feedstock digesters by volume". Sometime
> >back, when I asked about having a mobile digester (to provide fuel for a
> > motorhome and process waste), I was told that it would not work because
> >disturbing the digester would cause it to stop working.
> >    So is mixing bad or good?
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank Shields
> Soil Control Lab
> 42 Hangar way
> Watsonville, CA  95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> frank at compostlab.com
> www.compostlab.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> To: Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com>, Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <162523.88828.qm at web62405.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Harmon,
>
> I meant a good mixture of different feedstocks,
> instead of a single one. Stirring is important, too,
> in my experience, but we want to make sure it's
> stirring and not agitation. There is no reason you
> could not have a digester for your motor home. My
> first thoughts are to prevent agitation you could put
> a couple of vertical baffles in your digester tank.
> WArren
>
> --- Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >    Someone just posted that  "well-stirred digesters
> > with mixed contents
> > will always out-perform single feedstock digesters
> > by volume". Sometime
> > back, when I asked about having a mobile digester
> > (to provide fuel for a
> >  motorhome and process waste), I was told that it
> > would not work because
> > disturbing the digester would cause it to stop
> > working.
> >     So is mixing bad or good?
> >
> > --
> > Harmon Seaver
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> >
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
> Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> http://sims.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:58:01 -0700
> From: frank <frank at compostlab.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Mixing in digesters?
> To: fjheller at verizon.net
> Cc: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <46E828A9.2080700 at compostlab.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Katahdin Energy Works wrote:
>
> ><snip>
> >
> >Can the pH be used to control the CO2 given off?....depends on the microbe
> >strain, I think?
> >
> >Higher pH to keep the CO2 in solution , perhaps adjusting at the end?  to
> >reduce the CO2 in
> >the out gas. Good question; really haven't adjusted the pH levels to
> account
> >for CO2; we are mostly seeking to shorten the digestion cycle so we can
> >process more manure with a smaller tank faster; and to increase gas yields.
> >We are trying to sell the CO2 to a greenhouse or it is just scrubbed out. ?
> >Are you going for REC's?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I am thinking if CO2 in with the methane is a problem (?) that it could
> be removed by capture in a caustic solution like a Conway Diffusion, or
> (perhaps) removed using Teflon tubing, or perhaps adjusting the pH of
> the solution. Is ammonia  a problem in the gas?
>
> I work in a lab and have set up  an anaerobic digester that will capture
> and measure the methane, CO2 and ammonia in the gas. We want to
> formulate the right mix to produce the cleanest gas.
>
>
>
> >>Hope this helps.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >It helps a lot as I am on a steep learning curve.
> >And the top of Mt Katahdin is my favorite place on Earth.
> >
> >It is nice; and the trail has been improved. Really haven't be up it, in
> >years. Thanks for reminding me!
> >
> >
> Its been years for me too - I would be a little slower now. I did the
> Northern section of the AMT back in the late 60's. and climbed Mt
> Katahdin several more time since.
>
>
>
>
>
> >Thanks
> >Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Frank J. Heller, MPA
> >>KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
> >>12 Belmont St.
> >>Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
> >>207.729.6090
> >>http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Frank Shields
> Soil Control Lab
> 42 Hangar way
> Watsonville, CA  95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> frank at compostlab.com
> www.compostlab.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:27:37 +0100
> From: "Duncan Martin" <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>
> Subject: [Digestion] Confusing abbreviations
> To: "Michael Smith" <michael_1234 at msn.com>,	"digestion"
> 	<digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <004501c7f56a$e15d6000$e433869f at Dell1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Hence my warning against abbreviations!
>
> But this one is a bit too close for comfort I agree. If Coal Bed Methane is
> known as CBM and Compressed BioMethane might also be, confusion could arise.
>
> I think there's consensus on Biomethane for purified biogas, one word, as
> per my proposal and confirmed by Ken's Google search.
>
> How about High Pressure or Pressurized Biomethane (instead of Compressed)?
> The abbreviations HPBM or CBM could still be used, even with biomethane as
> one word. (Note that Landfill Gas is almost always LFG, although landfill is
> almost always one word.)
>
> However, HPB/CB.
>
> Duncan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Smith" <michael_1234 at msn.com>
> To: "digestion" <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:22 AM
> Subject: [Digestion] Compressed biomethane
>
>
> >  This terminology is or will use the acronym CBM which already stands for
> > Coal Bed Methane.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 03/09/2007
> > 09:31
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Confusing abbreviations
> To: Duncan Martin <duncanjmartin at eircom.net>,	Michael Smith
> 	<michael_1234 at msn.com>,	digestion <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <556846.56451.qm at web62401.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Are there any suggestions how to distinguish between
> biomethane and compressed biomethane?
>
>
> --- Duncan Martin <duncanjmartin at eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > Hence my warning against abbreviations!
> >
> > But this one is a bit too close for comfort I agree.
> > If Coal Bed Methane is
> > known as CBM and Compressed BioMethane might also
> > be, confusion could arise.
> >
> > I think there's consensus on Biomethane for purified
> > biogas, one word, as
> > per my proposal and confirmed by Ken's Google
> > search.
> >
> > How about High Pressure or Pressurized Biomethane
> > (instead of Compressed)?
> > The abbreviations HPBM or CBM could still be used,
> > even with biomethane as
> > one word. (Note that Landfill Gas is almost always
> > LFG, although landfill is
> > almost always one word.)
> >
> > However, HPB/CB.
> >
> > Duncan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Smith" <michael_1234 at msn.com>
> > To: "digestion" <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:22 AM
> > Subject: [Digestion] Compressed biomethane
> >
> >
> > >  This terminology is or will use the acronym CBM
> > which already stands for
> > > Coal Bed Methane.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Digestion mailing list
> > > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> > >
> >
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 -
> > Release Date: 03/09/2007
> > > 09:31
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> >
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:36:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Warren Weisman <weiswar at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Digestion] Ideal pH and temperature
> To: Digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <360088.28720.qm at web62412.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> My two cents---based on experience instead of books---
>
> Ideal pH balance for anaerobic digestion is a little
> on the alkaline side, between pH 7.0-8.5.
>
> Couple rules of thumb... if no flammable biogas is
> present after a few days 3-5, but you're getting good
> CO2 activity, use lime or ash to adjust the pH
> balance.
>
> Also, a red or yellow flame generally means
> over-acidity. Remove some old material and inlet some
> fresh stuff. A nice blue flame means happy
> micro-organisms.
>
> Ideal temperature for AD is same as for us 99 F or 37
> C. It will make biogas at temperatures lower than
> this, but production will fall off drastically. Higher
> temperature, thermophillic digestion, is unstable and
> will not produce more biogas to offset the energy
> needed to heat the digesters. General rule of thumb,
> don't let your digester get too hot to be
> uncomfortable to touch. Shade it from the sun if
> necessary.
>
> Warren Weisman
> USA
>
>
>
>
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> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 15, Issue 20
> *****************************************
>