[Digestion] addendum...using bio-gas in cars, emissions testing.
Katahdin Energy Works
KatahdinEnergyWorks at verizon.net
Wed Jan 30 12:11:03 CST 2008
Biogas Natural Gas Vehicles 'Best Environmental Cars 2005' in Sweden
Source - NGV Global
Monday, 20 June 2005
Fiat Punto Bi-Power combined with biogas produces lowest CO2 emissions in
Swedish assessment
Sweden, Stockholm
Natural gas vehicles operating on renewable 'biogas' have come out clear
winners in the Swedish Association of Green Motorists ranking of Best
Environmental Car for 2005. With environmental impact measured on a life
cycle basis, including the production and distribution of fuel, natural gas
vehicles running on biogas occupied the first eight positions, with the Fiat
Punto Bi-Power leading overall, producing only 9 g/Km of CO2.
The clear advantage of biogas over other fuels on a life cycle basis was
borne out by the study. Even large vehicles operating on biogas, such as the
Volvo S80, (ranked 6th) and the Mercedes E200 NGT (ranked 8th), produce only
25% of the emissions of a smaller Ford Focus operating on an E85 ethanol
blend (ranked 9th). The highest ranked hybrid vehicle, a Toyota Prius,
produced almost 12 times the CO2 emissions of the Fiat Punto.
Sweden is regarded as a world leader in the production and use of biogas for
transport and other applications.
Rankings for the study, which was supported by funding from the National
Swedish Road Authority include:
Vehicle Fuel CO2 Emissions, G/KM
Fiat Punto 5-d 1,2 60 Bi-Power Active Biogas 9
VW Golf Variant BiFuel 2,0 Biogas 11
Opel Astra CNG Biogas 11
Volvo S60 2,4 Bi-Fuel
Biogas 12
Opel Zafira 1.6 CNG Biogas 12
Volvo S80 Bi-Fuel CNG Biogas 12
Volvo V70 Bi-Fuel CNG Biogas 13
Mercedes E200 NGT sedan Biogas 14
Ford Nya Focus 1,8 FlexiFuel E85 (Ethanol blend) 54
Saab 9-5 Sedan 2,0t BioPower E85 (Ethanol blend)
69
Toyota Prius HSD Bensin Gasoline 107
Full listing
http://www.gronabilister.se/grafik/dynamiskapdf/20050621093203.pdf
The Fiat Punto Bi-Power, was first released in Sweden in May 2004, selling
300 units in the first year on the market. According to Fiat, the city of
Goteborg has established a fleet of 130 CNG Fiat Punto for Technical
Services. The company expects other cities to follow suit in the coming
months.
More information: http://www.gronabilister.se/
Frank J. Heller, MPA
KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
12 Belmont St.
Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
207.729.6090
http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
-----Original Message-----
From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Katahdin Energy
Works
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:54 PM
To: 'Srinivas Kasulla'; digestion at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 16
Not so sure about this claim.
HONDA's natural gas car engine produced emissions that were 'cleaner than
the surrounding air' and beat every other car engine/propulsion source
available:
Arai's team eventually managed to detect their engine's "nearly
unmeasurable" emissions. It suppressed hydrocarbons, nitrous oxides, and
carbon monoxide at least 60 times better than the 1997 federal limits for
new cars. It even bested California's much stricter targets for ultralow
emission vehicles (ULEV), the world's toughest goals, by a factor of ten.
In fact, Honda's natural-gas Civic accomplished all this without
sacrificing the benefits of good old internal combustion, such as more
horsepower and longer driving range, or the lower cost of mass production.
Bio-gas, cleaned and enhanced, is burned in engines extensively in Sweden;
I'm surprised they didn't used a side by side comparison with the vehicles
in Gottenburg for example.
I find it difficult to believe the combustion system would allow that much
unburn't methane into the atmosphere, and would like verification of this
given Honda's recent lowest ever emission rating.
Then there is the radiative effect of methane in the atmosphere...at which
level, and when compared to aviation emissions of water vapour. Methane in
the upper atmosphere's 'greenhouse layer' and for that matter CO2, is
relatively minor when compared to the impact of water vapour on nighttime
radiative forcing.
Something is wrong with these conclusions and I don't have time to delve
into it.
Frank J. Heller, MPA
KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS
12 Belmont St.
Brunswick, ME 04011-3004
207.729.6090
http://mysite.verizon.net/fjheller/
-----Original Message-----
From: digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Srinivas Kasulla
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:19 PM
To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 16
GAS POWERED BUSES A CLIMATE THREAT..............IS IT TRUEEE ?????
Gas powered buses are often launched as a cheaper alternative to
trolleybuses. However, they emit substances that are more harmful to
the climate than even diesel buses.
The world politicians efforts on combatting global warming is
concentrating on reducing carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions.
But is that really so important compared to methane (CH4)?
The 'relative greenhouse effect' of methane is estimated at about 17
times that of carbon dioxide. But it is true that the emissions of
carbon dioxide still are much greater than those of methane. So the
'historic' global warming effect that we have seen might be caused
largely by carbon dioxide.
However, the emissions of methane are increasing on a much faster rate
than those of carbon dioxide. It is no doubt that global warming in
the future more and more will be associated with methane.
In addition, the use of methane-containing fuels is even advocated by
environmental interests. The methane in the atmosphere come from a
variety of sources, among those most important are agriculture,
garbage dump sites, exploration of natural gas fields, pipelines for
natural gas, leakages from gas depots or gas filling stations,
emissions from end use of natural gas or biogas in household, industry
or vehicles.
The fact is that natural gas as well as 'biogas' contain 95-98%
methane. Environmental organisations use to promote the use of
'biogas' as an alternative to fossil fuels. However, the CH4 emissions
must be taken into consideration. 'Biogas' is often produced from
garbage or harvested grass that is anaerobically treated. If not
biogas was produced, some methane would anyhow be produced from the
dump site but the majority of the coal-containing compounds would be
transformed into other hydrocarbons or just carbon with time. So there
is a considerable net emission of methane (and also carbon dioxide) if
biogas is produced and used in vehicles. Still worse is of course the
use of natural gas in buses.
The use of natural gas - or biogas - in buses is usually associated
with significant emissions of methane due to that engines are tuned in
to reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides which otherwise would be a
problem for gas-powered vehicles. This is especially true for cold
starts and during city traffic conditions.
A Swedish study assesses the greenhouse effect of methane emissions
from biogas-powered vehicles to about 3 times the greenhouse effect of
carbon dioxide emissions from diesel-powered vehicles. Even if
considered the shorter average life of methane emissions compared to
CO2, the greenhouse impact from biogas buses seem to be far higher
than the greenhouse impact of diesel buses. Natural gas powered buses
are still worse since they also emit fossil CO2. More to read in
http://the-greenhouse-effect.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-methane-big-danger.html
This is thus a contradiction - that environmental organisations call
for the use of gas-powered vehicles when methane emissions might
become the most significant global warming problem in the future.
If we cannot control the methane buildup in the atmosphere there might
be more severe effects as methane is released from 'frozen' deposits
at sea bottom when the water warms up. The resulting greenhouse effect
might be much worse than what we are now discussing - there might be
an increase in global temperatures of 20-30 degrees C which in fact
has happened historically, last time during Eocene period som 55
million years ago when the North Pole had a climate with temperatures
about +20 degrees C and of course no ice.
So try to stop the methane emissions before it is too late. Use cheap
power from nuclear energy instead of natural gas or biogas wherever
feasible. Use electric trolley buses in cities with zero emissions
instead of experimenting with gas-powered buses.
was just wanted to rectify whether this news is true or not.
with regards
srinivas kasulla
Mumbai9869179601
On 1/29/08, digestion-request at listserv.repp.org
<digestion-request at listserv.repp.org> wrote:
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> 1. Re: Solid Waste (francois chartier)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:35:12 -0800 (PST)
> From: francois chartier <francoischartier at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Solid Waste
> To: digestion at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <731715.50193.qm at web50406.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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> Hi all,
>
> As anyone experience in biogaz using solid waste? What
> type of digester, handling, etc.
> cheers
> Francois
>
>
>
>
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> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 16
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--
SRINIVAS KASULLA
M E D C/ M E S N
09869179601
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