[Gasification] Methanol toxicity?
Thomas Reed
tombreed at comcast.net
Mon Jul 3 09:49:21 CDT 2006
Dear Thomas:
Right on!
Methanol does not corrode aluminum, but will do a job on magnesium. So
in testifying in Congress against methanol (and me) in 1975, Chevron
showed the magnesium tank of a chain saw to show that methanol would not
be a practical fuel.
I hope we're not too late to start serious alternate fuels.
TOM REED BEF
Thomas Pirotte wrote:
> I have never seen or heard of any instance of CH3OH absorption through the skin, from a "splash" exposure, causing any significant toxicity. I used methanol plenty of times back on Organic Chemistry lab...
>
> I read a blurb containing the factoid "methanol corrodes aluminum fittings." Any truth?
>
> T. Pirotte, M.D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:bioconversion-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Thomas Reed
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 08:14
> To: Dick Glick
> Cc: bioconversion at listserv.repp.org; Gasification
> Subject: [Bioconversion] Methanol toxicity
>
>
> Dear Glick and All:
>
> There is a lot of misinformation about methanol toxicity around, partly
> because the oil companies were dedicated to making sure it didn't
> compete with petroleum starting with our work in 1973. (See details at
> http://www.woodgas.com/methanol.htm).
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> According to my Merck handbook the usual fatal dose for *methanol *is
> 100-250 ml, but less than 30 ml has been reported. On *ethyl alcohol*
> they report "Nausea, vomiting, flushing, mental excitement or
> depression, drowsiness, impaired perception, incoordination, stupor,
> coma, death may occur." I believe there are over 100,000 deaths
> attributed to ethanol in the US each year, and for methanol less than 10
> worldwide, even though methanol production exceeds ethanol (?).
> (Methanol is also an intermediate for plastics, etc.)
>
> Shortly after I began my "methanol as an additive and the eventual
> replacement for gasoline" campaign in 1973 I got good advice on the
> toxicology from a Canadian physician.
>
> Most methyl alcohol toxic events were caused by confusing it with ethyl
> alcohol, so we decided that "methanol" was a better name than "methyl
> alcohol" or "wood alcohol". Painters were famous for drinking a wide
> variety of alcohols and were paraticularly susceptible around the turn
> of the century. Sailors likewise.
>
> Many liquors can contain methanol and I remember that Schlivovitz had 4%.
>
> The mechanism of methanol poisoning is that the ethanol dehydrogenaze in
> your stomach thinks it is ethanol and decomposes it to formic acid,
> definitely stronger than acetic acid and can cause blindness and death.
> A second mechanism is that methanol is not as intoxicating as ethanol,
> and so a dedicated drunk will keep on drinking it, waiting for bliss,
> rather than oblivion. The recommended antidote for accidentally
> drinking methanol is a dose of whiskey. This gives the dehydrogenaze
> the proper food to work on and the methanol passes through with less harm.
>
> The toxicity of methanol is a blessing in disguise. Ethanol is easily
> diverted into the home brew beverage category. Methanol won't be.
> Methanol is very biodegradable in the environment. It is much less
> toxic than gasoline.
>
> So, let's get on with methanol as the simplest replacement for gasoline
> and don't even think about it as a beverage.
>
> Your realistic fuel chemist,
>
> TOM REED The Biomass Energy Foundation
>
>
> Dick Glick wrote:
>
>> Hello All --
>> I don't know how I lived through 60 years in the chemistry lab -- all
>> those horrible solvents like methanol, benzene, toluene, etc -- but
>> times have changed and now they're killers -- ???
>>
>> Best, Dick
>> www.CorpFutRes.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver at gmail.com>
>> To: "Gasification" <GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org>;
>> <bioconversion at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: County wide methanol project -- was: Re: [Gasification]
>> Re:Gasification Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28
>>
>>
>>
>>> Just do a google on methanol toxicity. For instance:
>>>
>>> "Lethal doses are thought to range from 30-240 mL; the minimum lethal
>>> dose is believed to be 1 g/kg body weight."
>>>
>>> http://www.emedicine.com/NEURO/topic217.htm
>>>
>>> Methanol is very readily absorbed thru the skin, sub-lethal doses
>>> cause damage to the nervous system and eyes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/06, Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:48:22 -0500, Harmon wrote in message
>>>> <22acb24d0606261748i7c237c34v507d837d9d18cd5a at mail.gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This conversation really belongs on the bioconversion list rather
>>>>> than gasification.
>>>>>
>>>> ..aye.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But have you given any thought to just how toxic methanol is?
>>>>>
>>>> Spill it
>>>>
>>>>> on your hand while refueling and you probably won't survive the
>>>>> experience.
>>>>>
>>>> ..maybe I'm on long term bonus time, but some aero modellers have
>>>> messed
>>>> around with methanol and castor oil for decades. We do however worry
>>>> about epoxy glues and paints, there is an individual and appearantly
>>>> accumulating tolerance limit, some oldtimers can mess around for
>>>> decades
>>>> with no visible effects while a few unfortunate souls lose their health
>>>> building their first model.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
>>>> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
>>>> Scenarios always come in sets of three:
>>>> best case, worst case, and just in case.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Harmon Seaver
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gasification mailing list
>>> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
>>> http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification
>>>
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>>
>>
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