[Gasification] Ecoethanol "(OFF TOPIC)" <------ see???

[Mark & Elena Gallmeier]

Dear Mr. Escamilla,

Bravo sir!

> The problem is that such attitude drives off good members from the list
> which maybe in a future may contribute to the topic of gasification. Let
> me
> remind you that the secret of a well developed project is whithin the
> multidisciplinary effort and not the effort of one or more experts on one
> area.

Absolutely.  The history of science is replete with advances that came about
because of a fusion of knowledge from formerly segregated topics.  It's
arguable more advances have been made this way than by pursuit of narrow
dogmatic views.

> but why being intolerant at something that is contributing as well, maybe
> not for you, but for instance me and many other members of this forum.

Unfortunately there are personality types who are not creative in
themselves, but consider appointing themselves as Thought Police somehow
contributes something.

Another problem, which Dr. Reed and Science Magazine documented over 30
years ago, is Big Oil trying squash competition anyway they can to preserve
huge profit margins and a monopoly position in liquid fuels.    Sowing
dissension and driving off quality members with extremely rude and imperious
comments would be one method that might occur to a paid Big Oil list shill.
Such methods have been used by corporations in the past to destroy collegial
internet discussion in other industries, such as software development.

Now I have no evidence such persons are present here.  But if one were to
notice someone who seems routinely and even instinctively hostile to all
non-oil liquid fuels, and also see such a person sending out emails with tag
lines praising major Big Oil industry leaders, then a well-founded suspicion
might form.

Hopefully none of this will ever occur on this list, which is one of the 
highest
quality English language lists on the internet.

Best Wishes,

Mark A. Gallmeier



> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:16:21 -0600
> From: "Manuel Escamilla" <manuel_escamilla at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Ecoethanol "(OFF TOPIC)"  <------ see???
> To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <BAY23-F79562EEFF8A74B143586FFF650 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Dear Mr Kermit Schlansker, Mr Harmon Seaver and honorable members of the
> forum:
>
>
> When I first took a look at the list after browsing for hours to find a
> good
> group of experts on multidisciplinary tasks I thought this place was
> exactly
> what I was looking for. For me this forum is a place not only to learn and
> contribute to the gasification technology but also it is an island where a
> group of experts come together to share experiences and also to meet new
> colleagues. Now, as it happened to me once and twice and more, let me give
> you all a piece of advise: there is a subject area that has a reason which
> is leting to know in advance what the topic of the message is, so if it
> says
> ethanol and you don't want to read about it, then just don't.
>
> The problem is that such attitude drives off good members from the list
> which maybe in a future may contribute to the topic of gasification. Let
> me
> remind you that the secret of a well developed project is whithin the
> multidisciplinary effort and not the effort of one or more experts on one
> area.
>
> Given this I remind you that there is an OFF TOPIC header that can be
> written down right before the subject to let you all know if it is part or
> not of the gasification thread. Now, I surely know that such subject as
> ethanol is not a gasification topic and this is the main topic of the
> forum
> but why being intolerant at something that is contributing as well, maybe
> not for you, but for instance me and many other members of this forum.
>
> Who knows, maybe one day one guy from the ethanol industry or sugar
> industry
> or toilet paper industry will come up with the key to make the
> gasification
> a REAL comercial opportunity. Intolerance is the devil among science
> groups... should we keep bothering another members with irrelevant topics
> such at this?... please, lets give an example of tolerance and PLEASE...
> write down OFF TOPIC, ok?... oh... and if for any reason you forget and
> you
> see ethanol in the subject and you don't care about it...just don't read
> it!!!
>
> Now, about ethanol: (finaly)
>
> We among the sugar industry don't think like those guys that say ethanol
> is
> the key to the future. There are many reasons, so let me just write down a
> couple: first of all there is no way in hell that the planet earth has
> enough land to harvest crops that eventually may give a product to make
> ethanol. NO WAY. So ethanol, at least in latin america, is seen as a way
> to
> be MORE ENERGETICALLY INDEPENDENT, not COMPLETELY independent. Here in
> Guatemala our ethanol branch is growing tremendously fast. Right now there
> is a project in one sugar mill consisting in a new ethanol processing
> plant
> that will use final molasses as base material. I have no idea of what is
> going on with the corn to ethanol process but I presume there must be a
> lot
> of new ideas in such area that maybe we could use in the sugar industry.
> For
> instance, here we have one problem: we are lacking of more land to plant
> sugar cane so what are we doing?... buying whichever sugar mill in the
> central american region and, as fresh news for you all, in Brazil and
> other
> south american countries.
>
> Ethanol is now what propane (hope it is well written) gas was a few years
> ago. It started as a good source for powering up cars but it also
> contributed to a lot of problems to the engine. Maybe the problem is the
> thermic cycle or the technology used or whatever... who knows... weird
> ideas
> come up once in a while and solve problems.
>
> For me the key NOW is to generate diversified energy oportunities. Ethanol
> from soy, sugarcane, corn... whatever. Energy from garbage, from the sun,
> winds and oceans. The power generation from the oceans waves is a pretty
> good surce i believe and should be looked into it more carefuly.
>
> So no my dear colleagues, ethanol is NOT the key to the world's energy
> problem... it is the key for the ethanol producing countries to be more
> independent... It is just ANOTHER way to asure energy independency. Maybe
> the problem will be solved if we come up with a good water to fuel
> converter
> for our cars... maybe. For now lets just keep wondering and working and
> learning from other industries... maybe the key for gasification is in the
> most weird place... like almost any solution is.
>
> I leave you now to your gasification stuff... I am learning a lot about it
> and also enjoying those little fights that once in a while come up!!  =)
> Take care my fellow colleagues and keep eating sugar... say no to diabetis
> and honey!!!  hahahahaha  ;)
>
> Best Regards
>
> Manuel A. Escamilla