[Gasification] Off topic: tar sands Was: gasification application economics

Erik Jan Rodenhuis e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl
Wed Jun 14 05:03:18 CDT 2006 

Dear Maneul:

Simply from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sand

A month ago I saw an interesting documentary about the tar sands on
Discovery (or it was on National Geographic Channel, I am not sure).
Impressive operations. Check it out if you can.

Of course the big oil companies already participated in these projects. The
size of these resources makes it more attractive to them than the renewable
forms of energy. Furthermore they can still use the current infrastructure
for liquid fossil fuels. What a relief for the worlds most powerful
industries!

But let us stay on track on working out the opportunities on biomass! Rising
oil and energy prices also create business opportunities for the renewable
peanuts ;-)

Erik



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] Namens Manuel Escamilla
Verzonden: woensdag 14 juni 2006 4:08
Aan: gasification at listserv.repp.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Gasification] gasification application economics

Dear Mr Taylor and List:

In Florida (I think it is Tampa) TECO Group has a charcoal gassifier which 
is operating and connected to the grid. Two things come out of this: they 
let investigators work and learn from it and they get a lot of tax cuts. My 
brother in law, who is the chief manager of TECO's Group San José Power 
Station here in Guatemala, is the one who is in charge of giving it major 
maintenance as well as to many other of the power stations up there. It is a

shame that they do such things just to get some good deals under the 
table... but hey!!... that's politics and environment huh??... by the way, i

read an article the other day on some technique that allows oil extraction 
from sand and, given the actual cost of the oil barrel, such technique is 
now economically viable. Such oil in sand reservoirs they say are even 
larger than those we already have... anybody have heard of such thing? 
Sounds pretty cool to me.


Manuel



>From: gasification-request at listserv.repp.org
>Reply-To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
>To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
>Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 23, Issue 14
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT)
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: Re: NREL (Erik Jan Rodenhuis)
>    2. Re: gasification application economics (LINVENT at aol.com)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:22:28 +0200
>From: "Erik Jan Rodenhuis" <e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl>
>Subject: RE: [Gasification] Re: NREL
>To: <mmbtupr at aol.com>, <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>, <hseaver at gmail.com>,
>	<GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <20060612232242.754E6714C0 at smtp6.wanadoo.nl>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>Dear list!
>
>It is hard to find clear information on commercial gasification systems, if
>any. Lomo Plata in Paraguay was a famous example, but I have been told that
>the gasifiers are no longer in use, since low-cost hydropower from the grid
>would be available..
>It is not that hard to write a proposal were gasification can be economical
>feasible, but if your assumptions fail to be true...
>
>The worldbank report on gasification systems in India gave me some hope, 
>but
>I believe it is fair to say that only in certain situations gasification 
>can
>compete with low-cost, less-headache and clean hands systems on fossil
>fuels. Further I like to mention that an important reason for dissemination
>of gasifier systems in India is that there were generous subsidies 
>provided!
>
>I can recommend the following publication about the Indian experience:
>
>"Scaling up Biomass Gasifier Use" by Debyani Ghosh, Ambuj Sagar and V.V.N.
>Kishore, November 2004. I found an earlier version on:
>http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ESSD/envext.nsf/46ByDocName/ScalingUpBiomassGa
s
>ifierUseApplicationsBarriersandInterventions/$FILE/ScalingUpBiomassGasifier
U
>seHarvardTERI2003.pdf
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Erik
>
>
>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] Namens mmbtupr at aol.com
>Verzonden: maandag 12 juni 2006 17:38
>Aan: kchisholm at ca.inter.net; hseaver at gmail.com;
>GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org
>Onderwerp: Re: [Gasification] Re: NREL
>
>                          to   Gasification List    from   Lewis L Smith
>
>This thread suddenly made me recall that in December 2005, I scientist whom
>I have met and listened to, who is smarter than I am and who has a 
>"tougher"
>degree than I do, said over the Internet that there are no commercial
>biomass gasification plants in the world. Dead wrong !
>
>For over three years, I have been searching the Internet for processes 
>which
>we could use in Puerto Rico with Napier grass [one of the species called
>"elephant grass"]  and corresponding with their inventors and operators.
>Although I am traveling and citing from memory, I would venture to assert
>that there are over 1,000 under < one mWe in India alone and several dozen 
> >
>one mWE throughout the world, including some in Louisiana which have been
>gasifying rice husks since the early 1980's.
>
>This is not the first time I have stumbled across such lack of information
>in the biomass-gasification community. What gives here ?  It looks like we
>have a systemic problem or else, the "friends of petroleum" are more widely
>scattered than Murphy's ex-employees !
>
>Cordially. End of message.
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:56:35 EDT
>From: LINVENT at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasification application economics
>To: e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl, MMBTUPR at aol.com,
>	kchisholm at ca.inter.net, hseaver at gmail.com,
>	GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org
>Message-ID: <3da.4b0ddcf.31c01e13 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Dear Erik,
>     In the early 80's we were dealing with a large  particleboard
>manufacturing plant in Albuquerque who had significant amounts of  sander 
>dust to dispose
>of and a very large electric bill every month, paying  $.08/kwhr plus peak
>charges. We approached the company with a proposal to  replace the 
>electricity
>at $.045/kwhr and use the sander dust as a gasifier  fuel, using two 
>Cummins'
>engines for power generation.
>     They agreed to the deal and the funds came from a  tax sheltered
>investment fund out of Houston. After the engine/generator sets  were 
>bought and
>installed, and the gasifier was about ready to connect up, the  time delay 
>allowed
>them to withdraw from the agreement and they did because the  local utility
>offered them electricity at the same cost, effectively shutting  down the
>gasifier project. This same utility has hired 150 consultants as  lobbyists

>to
>prevent net metering, independent transportation over their lines,  and 
>foiled
>deregulation at every turn in the legislature, and out of many  possible 
>power
>source connections to them, only one in the last 30 years has  been 
>connected,
>the City of Albuquerque waste water plant and their biogas  generator set, 
>about
>900 kw.
>     So, the forces of competition are fierce, and not  necessarily fair.
>These are typical hazards seen every day in this business.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Leland T.  Taylor
>President
>Thermogenics Inc.
>7100-F 2nd St. NW  Albuquerque, New Mexico USA 87107
>Phone:505-463-8422, Fax:505-268-9206 (call  first) web:thermogenic.com
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>End of Gasification Digest, Vol 23, Issue 14
>********************************************

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