[Gasification] Off topic: tar sands Was: gasification application economics

Wed Jun 14 07:34:03 CDT 2006

   Discussions about oilsands wouldn't be "off-topic" on the bioenergy
list -- well, maybe somewhat -- and, in fact, they were just being
talked about  their, mostly about the horrendous environmental
devastation the mining of them is causing in Canada as we speak.

On 6/14/06, Erik Jan Rodenhuis <e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl> wrote:
> Dear Maneul:
>
> Simply from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sand
>
> A month ago I saw an interesting documentary about the tar sands on
> Discovery (or it was on National Geographic Channel, I am not sure).
> Impressive operations. Check it out if you can.
>
> Of course the big oil companies already participated in these projects. The
> size of these resources makes it more attractive to them than the renewable
> forms of energy. Furthermore they can still use the current infrastructure
> for liquid fossil fuels. What a relief for the worlds most powerful
> industries!
>
> But let us stay on track on working out the opportunities on biomass! Rising
> oil and energy prices also create business opportunities for the renewable
> peanuts ;-)
>
> Erik
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] Namens Manuel Escamilla
> Verzonden: woensdag 14 juni 2006 4:08
> Aan: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Onderwerp: Re: [Gasification] gasification application economics
>
> Dear Mr Taylor and List:
>
> In Florida (I think it is Tampa) TECO Group has a charcoal gassifier which
> is operating and connected to the grid. Two things come out of this: they
> let investigators work and learn from it and they get a lot of tax cuts. My
> brother in law, who is the chief manager of TECO's Group San José Power
> Station here in Guatemala, is the one who is in charge of giving it major
> maintenance as well as to many other of the power stations up there. It is a
>
> shame that they do such things just to get some good deals under the
> table... but hey!!... that's politics and environment huh??... by the way, i
>
> read an article the other day on some technique that allows oil extraction
> from sand and, given the actual cost of the oil barrel, such technique is
> now economically viable. Such oil in sand reservoirs they say are even
> larger than those we already have... anybody have heard of such thing?
> Sounds pretty cool to me.
>
>
> Manuel
>
>
>
> >From: gasification-request at listserv.repp.org
> >Reply-To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> >To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> >Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 23, Issue 14
> >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT)
> >
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> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. RE: Re: NREL (Erik Jan Rodenhuis)
> >    2. Re: gasification application economics (LINVENT at aol.com)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 01:22:28 +0200
> >From: "Erik Jan Rodenhuis" <e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl>
> >Subject: RE: [Gasification] Re: NREL
> >To: <mmbtupr at aol.com>, <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>, <hseaver at gmail.com>,
> >       <GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org>
> >Message-ID: <20060612232242.754E6714C0 at smtp6.wanadoo.nl>
> >Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >Dear list!
> >
> >It is hard to find clear information on commercial gasification systems, if
> >any. Lomo Plata in Paraguay was a famous example, but I have been told that
> >the gasifiers are no longer in use, since low-cost hydropower from the grid
> >would be available..
> >It is not that hard to write a proposal were gasification can be economical
> >feasible, but if your assumptions fail to be true...
> >
> >The worldbank report on gasification systems in India gave me some hope,
> >but
> >I believe it is fair to say that only in certain situations gasification
> >can
> >compete with low-cost, less-headache and clean hands systems on fossil
> >fuels. Further I like to mention that an important reason for dissemination
> >of gasifier systems in India is that there were generous subsidies
> >provided!
> >
> >I can recommend the following publication about the Indian experience:
> >
> >"Scaling up Biomass Gasifier Use" by Debyani Ghosh, Ambuj Sagar and V.V.N.
> >Kishore, November 2004. I found an earlier version on:
> >http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ESSD/envext.nsf/46ByDocName/ScalingUpBiomassGa
> s
> >ifierUseApplicationsBarriersandInterventions/$FILE/ScalingUpBiomassGasifier
> U
> >seHarvardTERI2003.pdf
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Erik
> >
> >
> >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >Van: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> >[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] Namens mmbtupr at aol.com
> >Verzonden: maandag 12 juni 2006 17:38
> >Aan: kchisholm at ca.inter.net; hseaver at gmail.com;
> >GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org
> >Onderwerp: Re: [Gasification] Re: NREL
> >
> >                          to   Gasification List    from   Lewis L Smith
> >
> >This thread suddenly made me recall that in December 2005, I scientist whom
> >I have met and listened to, who is smarter than I am and who has a
> >"tougher"
> >degree than I do, said over the Internet that there are no commercial
> >biomass gasification plants in the world. Dead wrong !
> >
> >For over three years, I have been searching the Internet for processes
> >which
> >we could use in Puerto Rico with Napier grass [one of the species called
> >"elephant grass"]  and corresponding with their inventors and operators.
> >Although I am traveling and citing from memory, I would venture to assert
> >that there are over 1,000 under < one mWe in India alone and several dozen
> > >
> >one mWE throughout the world, including some in Louisiana which have been
> >gasifying rice husks since the early 1980's.
> >
> >This is not the first time I have stumbled across such lack of information
> >in the biomass-gasification community. What gives here ?  It looks like we
> >have a systemic problem or else, the "friends of petroleum" are more widely
> >scattered than Murphy's ex-employees !
> >
> >Cordially. End of message.
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:56:35 EDT
> >From: LINVENT at aol.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasification application economics
> >To: e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl, MMBTUPR at aol.com,
> >       kchisholm at ca.inter.net, hseaver at gmail.com,
> >       GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org
> >Message-ID: <3da.4b0ddcf.31c01e13 at aol.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >Dear Erik,
> >     In the early 80's we were dealing with a large  particleboard
> >manufacturing plant in Albuquerque who had significant amounts of  sander
> >dust to dispose
> >of and a very large electric bill every month, paying  $.08/kwhr plus peak
> >charges. We approached the company with a proposal to  replace the
> >electricity
> >at $.045/kwhr and use the sander dust as a gasifier  fuel, using two
> >Cummins'
> >engines for power generation.
> >     They agreed to the deal and the funds came from a  tax sheltered
> >investment fund out of Houston. After the engine/generator sets  were
> >bought and
> >installed, and the gasifier was about ready to connect up, the  time delay
> >allowed
> >them to withdraw from the agreement and they did because the  local utility
> >offered them electricity at the same cost, effectively shutting  down the
> >gasifier project. This same utility has hired 150 consultants as  lobbyists
>
> >to
> >prevent net metering, independent transportation over their lines,  and
> >foiled
> >deregulation at every turn in the legislature, and out of many  possible
> >power
> >source connections to them, only one in the last 30 years has  been
> >connected,
> >the City of Albuquerque waste water plant and their biogas  generator set,
> >about
> >900 kw.
> >     So, the forces of competition are fierce, and not  necessarily fair.
> >These are typical hazards seen every day in this business.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Leland T.  Taylor
> >President
> >Thermogenics Inc.
> >7100-F 2nd St. NW  Albuquerque, New Mexico USA 87107
> >Phone:505-463-8422, Fax:505-268-9206 (call  first) web:thermogenic.com
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >
> >End of Gasification Digest, Vol 23, Issue 14
> >********************************************
>
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-- 
Harmon Seaver