[Gasification] Off topic: tar sands Was: gasification applicationeconomics

[Peter Singfield]

Extracted from that Url EriK refs to:

http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ESSD/envext.nsf/46ByDocName/ScalingUpBiomassGas
ifierUseApplicationsBarriersandInterventions/$FILE/ScalingUpBiomassGasifierU
seHarvardTERI2003.pdf

The scheme was quite successful in placing gasifiers in the field – over a
thousand systems were disseminated with an overwhelming fraction being
those for powering irrigation pumpsets. But subsequent surveys found that
most of the systems did not operate for long durations for a number of
reasons including materials and other technical problems and poor
maintenance (Chakravarthy et. al., 1991). For example, IISc estimates that
the 250 units based on its design which were disseminated through this
scheme ran for an average of 160 hours per unit (Mukunda et al.). In fact,
the subsidies on the gasifier-diesel engine combination were so high that
the cost to the user of the entire system was much smaller than the price
of the diesel engine alone, and therefore the main motivation for many
purchasers was to get a cheap diesel engine.

*************************************

If it don't come with a fat subsidy it does not happen -- and even then it
fails!!

In the coming year I will also be beating my head against this proverbial
wall -- but no subsidies -- and will keep it that way!!

On it's own merits -- only -- or not at all!!

You might have noticed over the many years -- subsidies (or Grants) are
always a form of slow poison!! Just a massive make work program with never
any hope of successful completions.

To politically correct to ever succeed at innovative processes.

Oh -- but how addictive they be to --- and how all end up "poisoned" --

So now you know what happened to the India Gasification program -- got
subsidized to death.

This I found "cute" as well:

"A frequent complaint with the gasifier system is that it works as long as
the team that developed it
(usually a team of scientists) is attending to it."

Peter - Belize



>From: "Erik Jan Rodenhuis" <e.j.rodenhuis at student.utwente.nl>
>
>Dear list!
>
>It is hard to find clear information on commercial gasification systems, if
>any. Lomo Plata in Paraguay was a famous example, but I have been told that
>the gasifiers are no longer in use, since low-cost hydropower from the grid
>would be available..
>It is not that hard to write a proposal were gasification can be economical
>feasible, but if your assumptions fail to be true...
>
>The worldbank report on gasification systems in India gave me some hope, 
>but
>I believe it is fair to say that only in certain situations gasification 
>can
>compete with low-cost, less-headache and clean hands systems on fossil
>fuels. Further I like to mention that an important reason for dissemination
>of gasifier systems in India is that there were generous subsidies 
>provided!
>
>I can recommend the following publication about the Indian experience:
>
>"Scaling up Biomass Gasifier Use" by Debyani Ghosh, Ambuj Sagar and V.V.N.
>Kishore, November 2004. I found an earlier version on:
>http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/ESSD/envext.nsf/46ByDocName/ScalingUpBiomassGa
s
>ifierUseApplicationsBarriersandInterventions/$FILE/ScalingUpBiomassGasifier
U
>seHarvardTERI2003.pdf
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Erik
>