[Gasification] r.e. Safety of Wood Gas

Thu Jun 15 14:52:53 CDT 2006

Dear Kevin & All,

>It must be conveyed to the point of use, and it must be handled safely at 
>every step
> along the way.

> So... If someone wanted to design and build a safe system that used Wood
> Gas, where would they go to get guidance on how to do it properly?

The most modern guidance?

As part of this effort, I suggest looking into what modern codes and 
standards have been developed for the Korean 'ondol' charcoal house/floor 
heating system.   I was introduced to this during a tour of duty in South 
Korea in the 1980s.   The flue gasses from a charcoal furnace are ducted 
into pipes running right underneath the floor.  Heat rises, thus heating the 
floor, which was where most people slept on sleeping pads.  And yes, people 
were occasionally reported as being killed by CO poisoning from leaky flue 
pipes venting into the rooms.

Still, I'd expect that Korean engineers have put a great deal of effort into 
developing safe handling standards for charcoal flue gasses, and especially 
for sealing the flue pipes.  This is one place where modern engineering 
principles have been applied to safely handling carbon monoxide in close 
proximity to people.

Regards,

Mark

> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:32:52 -0300
> From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> Subject: Safety of Wood Gas  [Gasification] storing wood gas.
> To: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver at gmail.com>, "Gasification"
> <GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <002b01c69089$c4bf79c0$8e16ba89 at kevin28mxtjznn>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> reply-type=response
>
> Dear List
>
> The issue of Wood Gas Safety is extremely important. Very bluntly, wood 
> gas
> is perfectly safe if it is handled properly, and people can die if it is 
> not
> handled properly. There is a "right way" and a "wrong way" to handle wood
> gas.
>
> The purpose of the Gasification List seems to be to provide a forum to
> assist in development of  technology that permits the increased use of
> biomass as a result of it being converted to gaseous fuel. It is one thing
> to "manufacture" wood gas, but that is only part of the task. It must be
> conveyed to the point of use, and it must be handled safely at every step
> along the way.
>
> We know fundamentally that wood gas can be handled safely. A hundred years
> ago, poisonous and explosive Manufactured Gas, or Coal Gas was produced
> centrally and distributed safely to millions of homes. "What Man has done,
> Man can do." (See also what Man has done 200 years ago::
>
> In 1801, Phillipe Lebon uses his wood-gas system to light the Hotel
> Seignelay in Paris, the first known instance of a whole building lighted
> with inflammable gas. See also 1799 Energy.
>
> William Murdock installs coal gas for lighting at the engine house of
> Boulton & Watt's plant near Birmingham, England, to celebrate the short
> Peace of Amiens between Britain and France. See also 1792 Energy; 1803
> Energy.
>
>
> LPG and Natural Gas are in safe widespread use, even though they are
> explosive and a fire hazard. Procedures and standards have been developed 
> to
> permit safe and reliable of these hazardous gases. The same thing can be
> done with wood gas.
>
> We could start by looking at the practices employed by the Coal Gas 
> Industry
> a hundred years ago, and build on their gas handling technology and
> experience to deliver wood gas safely to the point of use. In this day and
> age, we have hardware and technology that should make such systems much
> safer, and at much lower cost. For example, we have CO Detectors that are
> very cheap and dependable, and as a first line of defense, they would make
> an excellent safety addition to any wood gas system.
>
> Wood gas systems should be seen in perspective. Should charcoal stoves be
> banned because they can on occasion put out 2,000 ppm CO? Should kerosene
> stoves be banned because they can tip over or explode? Of course not. What
> should be done is to improve the devices and use them in a way that is 
> safe
> for the user. Similarly with wood gas...
>
> So... If someone wanted to design and build a safe system that used Wood
> Gas, where would they go to get guidance on how to do it properly? The
> Gasification List should be a good place to start. Possibly the Safety
> Section of the Bioenergy List Site could be a Repository for such
> guidelines?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver at gmail.com>
> To: "Gasification" <GASIFICATION at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] storing wood gas.
>
>
>> Tharu, I tried to reply to your private message on this subject to me,
>> but it didn't go through. Perhaps others here will weigh in on this --
>> but I sure don't think it's a good idea to pipe woodgas into a house.
>>
>>  You need more than ventilation -- people die just standing near to
>> a gasifier in the open air if their are leaks. One major problem is
>> you cannot smell the gas. Commercial gas systems like in towns add
>> something to the gas that smells strong.
>>    Natural gas (methane) is not nearly so dangerous, nor is lpg.
>> Woodgas is mostly CO.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Harmon Seaver
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
>> http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification
>
>
>
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