[Stoves] Blue Flame: was Re: [Gasification] Tom's WoodgasCampstove

[Dick Glick]

Toss a little sodium chloride of some other salts -- to get orange and other 
colors
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Manning" <a31ford at inetlink.ca>
To: "A Gasification" <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Stoves] Blue Flame: was Re: [Gasification] Tom's 
WoodgasCampstove


>
>
> I'll Chime In at this point, (Hi list)
>
> I am also as curious as Paul is, about flame color... Tom ??
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of psanders at ilstu.edu
> Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:25 PM
> To: tombreed at comcast.net
> Cc: alexis belonio - Philippines; STOVES; Jonathan Pratt; Shivayam
> Ellis; James Becker; gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Blue Flame: was Re: [Gasification] Tom's
> WoodgasCampstove
>
>
> Tom,
> and all,
>
> Quoting Thomas Reed <tombreed at comcast.net>:
>
>> Dear All:
>>
>> Three separate factors will make the flame blue:
>>
>> 1)  Burning fuels low in lignin (the precursor to tars) such as corn
>> and paper
>
> Rice husks would qualify as low in lignin, right?
>
>> 2)  Burning very wet fuels (the charcoal is consumed to dry each layer)
>
> Belonio's rice husk are certainly dry, so moisture not a reason in his 
> case.
>
>> 3)  Burning the resulting charcoal (but this needs more primrary air
>> and can result in lots of CO if the flame goes out )
>
> This matches with my hypothesis because the zone of pyrolysis is very thin
> if
> the fuel is tiny (rice husks) and plenty of air is coming up (Belonio uses
> forced air).  He has not written anything about what if the flame goes out
> in
> his units.
>
>>
>> For most purposes the flame color is not important.
>>
> Please instruct me (us?) further about why flame color is not important. 
> I
> am
> having trouble convincing myself that a light blue or even transparent
> flame is
> not "better" than the classic yellow flame.
>
> Paul
>
>> Onward,
>>
>> TOM REED
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul S. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff, Jonathan, and all:
>>>
>>> Jeff wrote:  (full message is below if needed)
>>>
>>>> Interesting, I noticed that the color of your flame is the color of
>>>> the flame
>>>> of my Woodgas Stove when burning pellets (animal bedding pellets)
>>>> but when I
>>>> burn corkey paper fireballs I get lots of blue colored flame.
>>>
>>>
>>> The blue flame is noticed in the Woodgas Campstove especially when it 
>>> has
>>> reached the char-burning phase (after the pyrolysis has finished).  But
> the
>>> blue flame occurs most of the time when Alexis Belonio uses rice husks 
>>> in
>>> his T-LUD gasifier (WITH FORCED AIR, it is important to note.)
>>>
>>> I believe that the common thread is that the incoming primary air is
>>> reaching
>>> the charcoal, making it "red hot", and having the subsequent
>>> "char-gasification".  In the case of the rice husks and the low-density
>>> fireballs, the raw material (husk or paper) is very thin, will pyrolyze
>>> quickly, and will form a useful layer of char THAT IS REACHED BY THE
>>> INCOMING
>>> PRIMARY AIR.
>>>
>>> In the case of wood chips or pellets, the thickness of the raw fuel
>>> means that
>>> pyrolysis takes some time to reach the inside of each piece of fuel,
>>> resulting
>>> in a less-well defined (thicker) zone where pyrolysis inside the pieces
> is
>>> "stealing" heat from whatever char-gasification is occurring on the
>>> outside of
>>> the piece of fuel.
>>>
>>> The above comments are mainly hypotheses for which I have no
>>> experimentation for
>>> controlled testing.  I hope someone can suggest ways to test these
>>> hypotheses,
>>> and someone to actually do the tests.
>>>
>>> Note:  Tom Reed has reported that the amount of char (as a percentage)
> that
>>> remains in the Woodgas Campstove is significantly less if the unit
>>> is operated
>>> at the high air speed all the time versus at the low air speed.
>>> Question:  If
>>> the air flow in Reed's unit is significantly increased (using a stronger
>>> external fan to send in more air), will it change its performance,
>>> especially
>>> if it will give a more blue flame?  (or burn other fuels?)
>>>
>>> So much to do and so little time to do it.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>
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