[Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel

[Rolf Uhle]

Hallo Max,

I´ve read your mail twice to make shure.Does it say you have no clue on why 
you feel " wvo or svo is much, much more pollutant than mineal diesel" ?
Of course there are hidden side costs like the amount of soft soap I need to 
clean my hands after a filtering party for  wvo or the amount of biodiesel 
it takes to clean the surrounding of the tank tap after spilling some wvo 
over the rim.. and the like.
But how do they statistically compare to Athabasca Tar Sand Riscs ?Also 
think of what people go thru eating fried food at certain fast food chaines 
. Or the poor conditions under which Lousiana soy farmers eat their coffe 
break sandwich in the cabins of their combines!

Or do you refer to air pollution actually originated by burning wvo in my 
Astra or in my Listeroid ? As soon as you find these reports, please let us 
know.

Thanks
Rolf


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Kennedy" <vacuum1313 at yahoo.ca>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel


I wasn't quoting reports though I am in the process of finding same.  It is 
simply logic that a less processed fuel has a lower "environmental cost". 
My background is environmental toxicology prior to teaching and much of the 
work I did was the remediation of groundwater sources contaminated mos often 
by petroleum or petroleum derivatives so the "logic" isn't completely 
without basis but comes from many years of working with the cleanup of 
contaminated soils around gas stations, refineries etc.  I have worked as a 
member of multidimensional teams that have addressed soil, water and air 
contamination so have knowledge of air pollution as well.  As a side note my 
researches to answer your question, a very valid one too, have indicated 
costs I had not taken into consideration such as increased health care costs 
in the vicinity of refineries, ecosystem losses such as found in the strip 
mining methodologies of the Athabasca Tar Sands project, fisheries
 losses due to water contamination etc etc..  As yet I have found nothing 
similar for the production of vegetable oil.  I will continue to research 
these embedded or embodied costs/pollution and comment as I find pertinant 
info.

Max


----- Original Message ----
From: Rolf Uhle <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 3:07:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel


Max,
I don´t know tto which reports on pollution created by wvo or svo you refer.
There was a kind of campaign in german media  some time ago, but the tests
they made were in totally unprepared vehicles and much contested.
Do you have any trustworthy analisis/data ?
I would apreciate them.
Tanks
Rolf


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Kennedy" <vacuum1313 at yahoo.ca>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel


> "Straight veggie oil is much, much more polluting than fossil diesel
> fuel, but biodiesel is a good bit less polluting than fossil diesel."
>
> If one only looks at comparing the 3 fuels themselves, this is true.
> However if one takes into account the imbedded energy/pollution of each in
> addition to that produced by using the end product then the WVO is far
> less costly both in energy costs and in total pollution produced.  For
> example diesel has to have added the extraction costs, the environmental
> impact costs (such as the Vancouver pipeline rupture), the refining energy
> costs etc.  The biodiesel has to include the energy/pollution in the
> process and process chemicals such as methanol and sodium hydroxide as
> well as disposal of the glycerine etc.  Yes, WVO has imbedded costs for
> processing, transport etc but they are lower as the material is far less
> processed and the costs are shared with the food industry as that was the
> primary use of the WVO.  An example of re-use advantage.  This last
> consideration is not true of diesel and partially true of biodiesel
> depending on the ratio of WVO in the
> BD.  The end use only mindset, which the starting quote embodies, needs to
> be replaced with a total cycle cost mindset.  That is not to say those on
> the list aren't aware these "hidden" costs exist however it is to say that
> the language we choose to use influences the thinking processes both of
> ourselves and those we talk to.  Just because some of the pollution to
> produce the more refined BD doesn't come from our tailpipe, originating
> from the methanol plant or the production of NaOH instead, doesn't mean
> that the pollution doesn't exist and isn't harmful.
>
> Off the soap box.
>
> The idea of trapping the waste carbon and using the waste heat from a WVO
> powered diesel using biomass destined for gasification sounds excellent to
> me and is a great example of whole cycle thinking that will truely
> overcome todays challenges in the future.
>
> Max K
>
>
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