[Gasification] PLEASE CHANGE SUBJECT LINE WHEN CHANGING SUBJECT

[Thomas Reed]

Dear All:

The following had a subject line TOrrefied Fuels, but no mention of it.  
PLease pay attention to changing the SUBJECT line when changing subjects....

TOM REED    BEF

gfwhell at aol.com wrote:
> Max,
>
> It is said that for every action there is an equal reaction. many of which go un noticed by the original activist.
>
> My reference to the Humphrey pumping engine is a case in point.
> One of these engines ran on wood gasification in Australia for many years, and produced a lake of tar which is present to this day
> This being an environmental disaster.
> There was no such lake at the site of the Chingford pump house, but here again, I wasn't looking for one.
> The products of incomplete combustion will produce some real poison.
> I am working on an ionization system which will break down un pyrolized particulates in the gas stream.This should take care of tars and aromatics.
> There will be a rise in the calorific value of the gas after this treatment, which should more than compensate for the input of energy used for this process.
> There will be advantages to such a system, especially at  the "start up" of a gasifier, Not to mention the use of lower grade fuels used for IC engine gas.
> I will keep the results posted.
>
> GF
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Max Kennedy <vacuum1313 at yahoo.ca>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 8:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel
>
>
>
>
> I wasn't quoting reports though I am in the process of finding same.  It is 
> imply logic that a less processed fuel has a lower "environmental cost".  My 
> ackground is environmental toxicology prior to teaching and much of the work I 
> id was the remediation of groundwater sources contaminated mos often by 
> etroleum or petroleum derivatives so the "logic" isn't completely without basis 
> ut comes from many years of working with the cleanup of contaminated soils 
> round gas stations, refineries etc.  I have worked as a member of 
> ultidimensional teams that have addressed soil, water and air contamination so 
> ave knowledge of air pollution as well.  As a side note my researches to answer 
> our question, a very valid one too, have indicated costs I had not taken into 
> onsideration such as increased health care costs in the vicinity of refineries, 
> cosystem losses such as found in the strip mining methodologies of the 
> thabasca Tar Sands project, fisheries
> losses due to water contamination etc etc..  As yet I have found nothing 
> imilar for the production of vegetable oil.  I will continue to research these 
> mbedded or embodied costs/pollution and comment as I find pertinant info.
> Max
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> rom: Rolf Uhle <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> o: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> ent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 3:07:03 AM
> ubject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel
>
> ax,
>  donÂŽt know tto which reports on pollution created by wvo or svo you refer.
> here was a kind of campaign in german media  some time ago, but the tests 
> hey made were in totally unprepared vehicles and much contested.
> o you have any trustworthy analisis/data ?
>  would apreciate them.
> anks
> olf
>
> ---- Original Message ----- 
> rom: "Max Kennedy" <vacuum1313 at yahoo.ca>
> o: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
> gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> ent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:32 AM
> ubject: Re: [Gasification] Torrified woodchips as a gasifier fuel
>
>  "Straight veggie oil is much, much more polluting than fossil diesel
>  fuel, but biodiesel is a good bit less polluting than fossil diesel."
>
>  If one only looks at comparing the 3 fuels themselves, this is true. 
>  However if one takes into account the imbedded energy/pollution of each in 
>  addition to that produced by using the end product then the WVO is far 
>  less costly both in energy costs and in total pollution produced.  For 
>  example diesel has to have added the extraction costs, the environmental 
>  impact costs (such as the Vancouver pipeline rupture), the refining energy 
>  costs etc.  The biodiesel has to include the energy/pollution in the 
>  process and process chemicals such as methanol and sodium hydroxide as 
>  well as disposal of the glycerine etc.  Yes, WVO has imbedded costs for 
>  processing, transport etc but they are lower as the material is far less 
>  processed and the costs are shared with the food industry as that was the 
>  primary use of the WVO.  An example of re-use advantage.  This last 
>  consideration is not true of diesel and partially true of biodiesel 
>  depending on the ratio of WVO in the
>  BD.  The end use only mindset, which the starting quote embodies, needs to 
>  be replaced with a total cycle cost mindset.  That is not to say those on 
>  the list aren't aware these "hidden" costs exist however it is to say that 
>  the language we choose to use influences the thinking processes both of 
>  ourselves and those we talk to.  Just because some of the pollution to 
>  produce the more refined BD doesn't come from our tailpipe, originating 
>  from the methanol plant or the production of NaOH instead, doesn't mean 
>  that the pollution doesn't exist and isn't harmful.
>
>  Off the soap box.
>
>  The idea of trapping the waste carbon and using the waste heat from a WVO 
>  powered diesel using biomass destined for gasification sounds excellent to 
>  me and is a great example of whole cycle thinking that will truely 
>  overcome todays challenges in the future.
>
>  Max K
>
>
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