[Gasification] Cigarettes and other gasifiers

Fri Feb 9 08:40:22 CST 2007

Dear Jim:

We'll be delighted to hear about your "toilet bowl" gasifier. But please 
wear safety glasses and maybe a flack suit, since the thermal shock may 
cause the porcelain  to explode.

Old hot water heaters are also good candidates for making gasifiers, and 
also for making biodiesel!

I have tried so many "dumb" experiments that gave unexpected results - 
and even lead to patents, that I would encourage all you gasifiers and 
stovers to hang loose and listen to your instincts (as well as your 
little grey cells). 

Onward

TOM REED              BEF

PS:  Please note that the white smoke from a cigar or cigarette in the 
updraft mode is mostly composed of the low temperature that constitute 
~30% ofprimary pyrolysis products.  The much thinner blue smoke coming 
from blowing into the c/c represents the high temperature secondary tars 
that remain uncracked after passing through the hot (>700 C) charcoal 
bed, and these tend to be more carcinogenic. 

There is a rumor around that there is a tribe in Goa that smokes in the 
downdraft mode (lit end in mouth).  There is another rumor that CO is 
mildly intoxicating in low doses.  Comments?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim mason wrote:
>>
>> I'm well known for risking my health demonstrating the difference
>> between updraft (blow through the lit end and watch the clouds of smoke)
>> and downdraft (blow through the biomass end and watch most of the smoke
>> disappear - or turn a light blue).  Probably shortens my life by 1/2
>> hour per demo.  I keep breath spray in my pocket for cleanup afterwards.
>>
>> (Updraft = charburning, tar making;  downdraft = tar burning char 
>> making).
>>
>
>
> well, if there was ever a good demo of why smoking is a bad idea, this
> was it.  the smoke/tar off the cigarettes, as an updraft, as they are
> intended to be used, was really quite terrible.  much worse than any
> coal/sawdust/coffee/wood/cardboard/paper/etc i've gasified so far.
>
> it didn't dawn on me to try it as a downdraft too.  it would likely
> work better that way, as tobacco char is very persistent.  the updraft
> direction really burns itself out so fast that there is not much time
> for a char bed to form ahead of the flame front, so gas rate becomes
> very touchy, as the char bed is so small.
>
> problem is, at the size needed to run the generator, each attempt
> burns about $15 in cigarettes.  and those were the nastiest cheapest
> cigarettes i could find.  well, i found some menthols that were
> cheaper, but i wasn't sure what in fact is added for menthols and
> whether there might be some unintended effect there.
>
>
> otherwise, lately i've been looking around for other "already made"
> gasifiers in the world.  the cigarette is the obvious one.  the other
> one, not so obvious, but already installed in nearly every house
> already, is the toilet.
>
> a regular bowl toilet will likely run as is as a stratified downdraft
> gasifier, as is.  fill the bowl with pellets.  if there is a water
> spout in the bottom of the bowl from the tank, it will need to be
> filled/blocked.  light, then suck on the drain out the bottom.  the
> winding drain tube will make a fire tube.  it is usually about 4" in
> diameter, so that's about right for a 5-10hp engine.  perfect size for
> a lister . . .
>
> i'm going to try this out soon.  the plan is to mount the toilet on
> the top of a 55gal drum.  take a straight pipe from the toilet drain,
> down though the lid of hte drum, and to near the bottom.  put a
> sawdust filter shelf about half way back up the drum.  tap the gas
> near the top.
>
> should work just fine.  high temp ceramic too.  and again, big
> installed base already in the world.  but don't think they have quite
> the lobby the cigarette industry does though . . .
>
> j
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> GIve it a try,
>>
>> TOM REED     (BEF
>>
>>
>>
>> jim mason wrote:
>> > tom, did you do something similar to this?  i just got the note below.
>> >
>> > j
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: astrupgaard <astrupgaard at c.dk>
>> > Date: Feb 8, 2007 1:13 AM
>> > Subject: RE: [Gasification] the gasifier in your shirt pocket (aka:
>> > thecigarette)
>> > To: jim mason <jimmason at whatiamupto.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I can't withstand the opportunity to refer to the one time I had the
>> > chance to meet Dr. Tom Reed in Copenhagen. He gave a demonstration of
>> > the inverted downdraft gasifier - in the shape of a cigar. Simple !
>> >
>> > Best regards/ Med venlig hilsen
>> >
>> > ENVIPOWER AS
>> >
>> > Nils Peter Astrupgaard
>> >
>> > Snerlevej 1 DK-2800 Kgs. Lyngby
>> >
>> > +45 4061 5600
>> >
>> > npa at envipower.dk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>> > [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of jim mason
>> > Sent: 7. februar 2007 23:55
>> > To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> > Subject: [Gasification] the gasifier in your shirt pocket (aka:
>> > thecigarette)
>> >
>> > the cigarette gasifier:
>> > http://whatiamupto.com/Gasification/cigifier/index.htm
>> >
>> >
>> > recently it occurred to me that a cigarette is a ready-made,
>> >
>> > off-the-shelft, light-it-up-and-go gasifier.  "waste" biomass in.
>> >
>> > flammable gaseous fuels out.  really cheap and easy "construction"
>> >
>> > too.
>> >
>> >
>> > think about it.  the cigarette is a directional, air constrained,
>> >
>> > choked combustion unit.  full combustion at the tip produces CO2, H20
>> >
>> > vapor and heat.  the heat propagates inward on the drag, pyrolysing
>> >
>> > (charcoalizing to raw carbon) the tobacco ahead of the flame front.
>> >
>> > the CO2 and H2O from the combustion are then passed over the resulting
>> >
>> > red hot coals (C) making the gasification reduction reactions happen:
>> >
>> > CO2 + C = 2CO
>> >
>> > H2O + C = H2 + CO
>> >
>> > the result is H2 and CO are both flammable, and are inhaled along with
>> >
>> > lots of tars, creosotes, other heavy and light hydrocarbons, and of
>> >
>> > course, nicotine, itself a flammable alkaloid hydrocarbon that has
>> >
>> > been noticed to have pleasant stimulant effects
>> >
>> > (note: this is the staged combustion/reduction explanation.  you can
>> >
>> > also explain it with the flaming pyrolysis model if you want).
>> >
>> >
>> > but then why won't the exhaled smoke light?  i've never seen cigarette
>> >
>> > smoke blown over a match make a flameup.
>> >
>> > well, it must be because CO is highly attracted to hemoglobin and goes
>> >
>> > into your blood on the inhale, thus why CO is so dangerous.  it
>> >
>> > colonizes all the O2 receptors in your blood, which at volume is how
>> >
>> > CO asphyxiates you.  CO poisoning at low levels just gives you a
>> >
>> > headache. somewhat like cigarettes.  or living in LA.
>> >
>> >
>> > maybe cigarettes are, in fact, the stealth back door route to a future
>> >
>> > of hydrogen rich, biomass derived, flammable fuels?  there is already
>> >
>> > a huge lobby in place, along with a giant already existing
>> >
>> > infrastructure for growing, processing, distribution, taxation, etc.
>> >
>> > friends in high places too.
>> >
>> >
>> > obviously this needed to be tested, so last night i set up a rig to
>> >
>> > gasify cigarettes for both raw flame as well as gaseous fuel to run a
>> >
>> > electricity producing generator.  the results are here:
>> >
>> > http://whatiamupto.com/Gasification/cigifier/index.htm
>> >
>> > the results were very nasty and smelly.  the bench was covered with a
>> >
>> > mountain of cigarette debris.  but it did work.  not for very long,
>> >
>> > and not very well, mind you, but the gasified cigarettes did produce a
>> >
>> > fuel adequate to power a 10hp, kw generac generator.  cigarettes in:
>> >
>> > electricity out.  ridiculous . . .
>> >
>> > it took about six packs of smokes, or 120 cigarettes to get about a
>> >
>> > minute run on the engine.  not a particularly efficient fuel, grant
>> >
>> > you, but we do have a lot of it around, and i'm sure some improvements
>> >
>> > in design are possible.
>> >
>> >
>> > ok, i admit i had to cheat a bit.  or rather, "improve" on the
>> >
>> > cigarette gasifier design.
>> >
>> > cigarettes are not well enough insulated to keep the coal bed
>> >
>> > adequately hot for the reduction reactions to happen efficiently.  the
>> >
>> > result is a very low energy fuel.  so i had to pack lots of cigarettes
>> >
>> > together, and encase them in a steel pipe, with a little aluminum foil
>> >
>> > and air pocket insulation around it.  that was enough to make it work
>> >
>> > just fine.
>> >
>> >
>> > unfortunately i forgot the "grate".   so the engine vacuum eventually
>> >
>> > pulled the cigarettes through the steel pipe, right into the engine.
>> >
>> > through the pipe, then through the carburetor, through the manifold,
>> >
>> > past the intake valve and into the cylinder, still as whole
>> >
>> > cigarettes.
>> >
>> > in the cylinder, the piston packed them up against the head like a
>> >
>> > cigarette pellet pancake making machine, stalling out the engine out.
>> >
>> > terrible horrible noises were heard as everything came to a sudden
>> >
>> > stop.  pulling the start rope wouldn't budge the motor.
>> >
>> > i took the head off and there was cigarette cake packed on the top of
>> >
>> > the piston, as well as a valve floated off the seat on tobacco crumbs.
>> >
>> > one cigarette butt too, whole.
>> >
>> > all and all, quite a good demonstration for why it is a good idea to
>> >
>> > gasify solid fuels before trying to burn them in an internal
>> >
>> > combustion engine.  2 x 4s would probably be even worse  . .
>> >
>> > j
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
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>> >
>> > 
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>> >
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>