[Gasification] Reply to woodgas car questions

[Fredrik Ek]

Ian and list

The use of trailers for housing the gas producer systems is popular as these
are more easy to build compared to direct fitting of the systems to the
vehicle. 

In fact if you build the gasification system on the car you have to use a
trailer for taking the fuel with you if you want to drive a little further.
The cars fitted with gasproducers are mostly bigger cars, this means also
big fuel consumption. Typically uou have to count with one liter of wood
coarse wood chips or wood blocks per driven kilometer.

The bigger the fuel hopper -the further you can drive without refueling.
Vesa Mikkonen is the record keeper in this sence, he uses mostly peat for
fuel and could with his previous car drive 300 km before having to stop in
order to add fuel to the gasifier. With my car I add fuel approximately
every 100 km.

Stainless steel is just as expensive in Finland as everywhere else, in the
junkyard you typically pay 3 Euro per kg for sheet metal or straight pipes.
Nicer details have a higher prize per kg. In Finland there anyway is a lot
of pulp and paper industry and via contacts you sometimes can get nice
material for a really low price. For new material you have to pay 6-7eur/kg
and special details like bends and valves and so on are of course really
expensive for a hobby builder.

The usage of stainless steel is anyway to recommend as the units will last
for very long and require less service than when black steel is used. When
the material withstands corrosion you also can build the system of thinner
material and save weight. A surface of stainless steel also looks better and
is more easy to keep clean.

http://www.woodgas.fi/kuvagalleria/bromarvissa.jpg

This picture is taken after 8000 km driving on woodgas. Ohter cars have been
driven on woodgas for several 100 000 km.

http://www.ekoautoilijat.fi/tekstit/suuret_kuvat/Buick1.jpg

This picture was taken after 80 000 km driving

Ian also asked which units work best. One of the most fashinating things
about automotive gasificaton is that there is not any solution that is
always right. Different builders have made very different systems and most
of them work quite well.

A few things are anyway clear. With dry filtration you get a better
filtration result than you get with wet filtration. If you use a volume
filter filled with sawdust, leca gravel, woodchips, rockwool or whatever
-soot always will pass the cleaning system and enter the engine. Soot is
anyway not very harmful to the engine but why feed the engine with it when
you do not have to do it. With a well working dry filtration system the
engine oil does not get black, after several thousands of kilometers of
driving the oil appears only a little brownish. A well designed dry filter
does not need cleaning. The movements of the car is enough for keeping the
filter clean. Removal of dust from the ashbin under the filter is all
service that is needed. With dry filtration less sevice work is needed than
with wet filtration. With dry filtration you in addition get the water
separate from the solids. This means that you get no nasty black slurry.

If the gasifier is well designed and correctly used the oil does not get
contaminated with any tar. In Finland practically all of the woodgas cars
are operated solely on wood or peat, not on charcoal.

One more interesting detail is wether to separate water from the fuel hopper
or not. If you build a water separation "Monorator" system you can use a
little bit more humid fuel than what a gasifier with an Imbert-type hopper
can use. On the other hand you then get nasty tar contaminated water to get
rid of. The usage of fuel with a humidity of less than 20 % does not require
a Monorator hopper. If you choose to separate water from the hopper you
also sometimes have to clean the places where the water and the tar
condensate -and this is not any nice work.. But of course -it is nice to
have the chance to simply refuel your car anywhere with the help of a
chainsaw and an axe in this country almost all over covered by forest.
Although we have a rather humid climate -standing ded trees are dry enough
to gasify if you like me use a water separating fuel hopper on your gasifier.

Fredrik



> Hi Fredrik and list
> 
> The text below refers to cars detailed at 
> http://www.ekoautoilijat.fi/tekstit/kalustoesittely.htm
> 
> I was looking at all the various vehicles fitted with gasifiers. What a 
> pity the text isn't in english as well as finish. This collection
> probably 
> represents the best concentration of working systems in the world and as
> 
> such all credit is well deserved. There are several things that fascinate
> me:
> 
> 1. The use of trailers to house the gas producers. It just makes so much
> 
> sense to do that. You can even carry extra fuel on a trailer.!
> 
> 2.  I observe the range of sizes of gasifiers for different sizes of 
> vehicles. Some small vehicles have large chambers whilst other larger
> ones 
> have smaller. Trailers obvious allow a greater flexibility in this
> regard. 
> I presume the driveable distance is increased in direct proportion to the
> 
> volume of the primary gasifier chamber since a bigger chamber can simply
> 
> hold more wood. I would like to see details of this. Volume of primary 
> chamber versus engine size versus distance.
> 
> 3. The majority of the gasifier units seem to be constructed from some
> form 
> of stainless steel and simply look 'professional'. Is there a reason for
> 
> this. ie is stainless cheaper in Finland or what?. Most gasifiers I have
> 
> seen look dark and sometimes even evil. I fully realise that emotion
> should 
> have no part in engineering but this aspect of this collection intrigues
> 
> me. I wonder what they look like now after some use?. Maybe this aspect 
> relates directly to the 'divorce' and 'suicide'. (BIG grin!!).
> 
> Fredrik..this collection represents a database of vehicles that is
> valuable 
> in terms of comparison. Is it possible to translate the text into english
> 
> so we all have access to this information?. Personally this collection 
> inspires me as it does some of my friends. Yet to a non finish speaker it
> 
> asks more questions than it answers.
> 
> I, for one, am interested in how these vehicles perform comparatively?, 
> which ones work best?. Which are the easiest to use?. Are trailers the 
> answer? Is complicated better? Is there one that stands out as better?
> 
> I suspect that your 50kw design is a collective result of all of these 
> attempts and as such you are integrating that collective learning of the
> 
> all that is happening in Finland in order to move on to a new level. If 
> this is true, then you and the individual owners of the collection
> deserve 
> my congratulation. You do anyway!!
> 
> I personally believe this technology has much to offer and can only be 
> impressed by what I have seen. I live in New Zealand and we have loads of
> 
> timber and an ideal climate to grow biomass..we also have a history of
> 'No8 
> wire' technology (doug williams will know what I am referring to) but as
> 
> yet I have not seen such enthusiasm for gasification. Finland
> rules..imo!!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Ian Vincent
> somewhere surrounded by trees in new zealand!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date:
> 23/01/2007
> 
> 
>