[Gasification] Hydrogen

[Michael Redler]

Harmon,

You're preaching to the choir. I already did the math and agreed with 
you that in most applications, the current H2 technology is not 
competitive. I only commented on what it can be used for, not how 
competitive it is today.

On 1/27 I wrote:

"Although I can't see pressurized hydrogen from electrolysis (for 
example) as economical for most applications, it's not a lie. So, it 
sounds like you're calling some of the practical uses of hydrogen a lie. 
I would agree with that. But, Please take care. What do you think is 
worse; overzealous promotion of a particular technology driven by greedy 
exploitation, or stigmatizing that technology so that further 
development never sees the light of day?"

The so called "hydrogen economy" is (literally) a pipe dream for those 
who wish to control resources by making everyone dependent on one 
replacement for oil. The fact is that any "XXX" economy is not 
sustainable and that hydrogen will eventually have a place along side 
numerous other technologies. It's just a matter of how long to develop 
it in order to make it economical.

Progress has been made in the last 30 years:

Hydrogen Storage Gets A Boost
Direct H2 binding to metal atoms beefs up capacity

"Jeffrey R. Long of the University of California, Berkeley, and his 
coworkers synthesized a manganese benzenetristetrazolate MOF with an 
observed H2 uptake of 6.9 weight %, or 60 g/L, at 77 K and 90 bar (J. 
Am. Chem. Soc. 2006, 128, 16876). This capacity is the highest yet 
reported for a MOF and is the first to exceed the Department of Energy's 
2010 targets of 6.0 wt % and 45 g/L for H2 storage."

[more]

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/85/i01/8501notw8.html

Improvement seems to be slow but steady.

Mike
 

Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Michael Redler wrote:
>   
>> "The end result of Hydrogen is invariably promoted as electricity from a fuel 
>> cell. Why not simply skip the fuel cell intermediate step and use the 
>> electricity directly?"
>>
>> It has to do with what flavor of energy you need. Fixed energy conversion systems (like at Niagara falls) doesn't fit under the hood of a car so it needs to be converted to transportable, stored energy. As Tom pointed out (and as we all experience at the gas pump), there are people who want to control and exploit the way we buy stored energy.
>>
>>     
>
>    If you do the math, you will find it is far more efficient to use the
>  electricity from Niagra, solar panels, whatever, to charge batteries
> (yes, even the lead-acid batteries common today) and drive your electric
> car on them than to make H2, then burn that in a fuel cell to make
> electricity to drive those electric motors turning your wheels. You will
> get many more miles per KWH just with our present day battery technology
> as say in the nice Toyota RAV4 electric that they killed off. And the
> the newer batteries, like lithium-ion, it will be even more efficient.
>    Not to mention that you can't buy a fuel-cell car at present for less
> than $3,000,000 and even if they were making them on a large scale they
> would still cost at least $250,000.
>     When I first read about H2 energy 30 years ago, I too thought it was
> a wonderful idea. I could hardly wait -- but after many years of
> waiting, I started to wonder. And after reading and listening to some of
> the latest research in that area, I simply laugh. Dream on if you like,
> but nobody alive today will ever see the "hydrogen economy".
>
>
>