[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 7, Issue 32 Trailers for fuel

[Ron Wagner]

How about a trailer full of lead acid batteries for an
electric car? Use when needed for long trips. Exchange
spots could be set up. Or have one slow charging at
work, and exchange it with one at home. Unlimited
range if a company would have an exchange system. 
Could do the same with propane tanks, or whatever.

Ron
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Hydrogen (Harmon Seaver)
>    2. Re: Hydrogen (Harmon Seaver)
>    3. Reply to woodgas car questions (Fredrik Ek)
>    4. Re: Hydrogen (MMBTUPR at aol.com)
>    5. Re: Hydrogen (Michael Redler)
>    6. Re: Hydrogen (Ken Boak)
>    7. Re: Hydrogen (rkurt at tadaust.org.au)
>    8. Re: Hydrogen (Harmon Seaver)
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:57:24 -0600
> From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Hydrogen
> To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <45BD0024.1070306 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> MMBTUPR at aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > Again I strongly urge you all not to try to  << 
> kill off  >> any
> > renewable source of energy. 
> 
>    Hydrogen is not in any way, shape, or form a
> "remewable source of
> energy" or even "a source of energy." It is merely a
> transport
> mechanism. You can convert electricity into H2, or
> you can convert
> methane into H2, but you can't go out and harvest it
> or mine it.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Harmon Seaver
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:10:02 -0600
> From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Hydrogen
> To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <45BD031A.6080900 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Michael Redler wrote:
> > "The end result of Hydrogen is invariably promoted
> as electricity from a fuel 
> > cell. Why not simply skip the fuel cell
> intermediate step and use the 
> > electricity directly?"
> > 
> > It has to do with what flavor of energy you need.
> Fixed energy conversion systems (like at Niagara
> falls) doesn't fit under the hood of a car so it
> needs to be converted to transportable, stored
> energy. As Tom pointed out (and as we all experience
> at the gas pump), there are people who want to
> control and exploit the way we buy stored energy.
> > 
> 
>    If you do the math, you will find it is far more
> efficient to use the
>  electricity from Niagra, solar panels, whatever, to
> charge batteries
> (yes, even the lead-acid batteries common today) and
> drive your electric
> car on them than to make H2, then burn that in a
> fuel cell to make
> electricity to drive those electric motors turning
> your wheels. You will
> get many more miles per KWH just with our present
> day battery technology
> as say in the nice Toyota RAV4 electric that they
> killed off. And the
> the newer batteries, like lithium-ion, it will be
> even more efficient.
>    Not to mention that you can't buy a fuel-cell car
> at present for less
> than $3,000,000 and even if they were making them on
> a large scale they
> would still cost at least $250,000.
>     When I first read about H2 energy 30 years ago,
> I too thought it was
> a wonderful idea. I could hardly wait -- but after
> many years of
> waiting, I started to wonder. And after reading and
> listening to some of
> the latest research in that area, I simply laugh.
> Dream on if you like,
> but nobody alive today will ever see the "hydrogen
> economy".
> 
> 
> -- 
> Harmon Seaver
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:16:29 +0200
> From: Fredrik Ek <fredrik.ek at helsinki.fi>
> Subject: [Gasification] Reply to woodgas car
> questions
> To: Ian Vincent <vincent at igrin.co.nz>
> Cc: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID:
> <1170022589.45bd20bdd87ab at www2.helsinki.fi>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Ian and list
> 
> The use of trailers for housing the gas producer
> systems is popular as these
> are more easy to build compared to direct fitting of
> the systems to the
> vehicle. 
> 
> In fact if you build the gasification system on the
> car you have to use a
> trailer for taking the fuel with you if you want to
> drive a little further.
> The cars fitted with gasproducers are mostly bigger
> cars, this means also
> big fuel consumption. Typically uou have to count
> with one liter of wood
> coarse wood chips or wood blocks per driven
> kilometer.
> 
> The bigger the fuel hopper -the further you can
> drive without refueling.
> Vesa Mikkonen is the record keeper in this sence, he
> uses mostly peat for
> fuel and could with his previous car drive 300 km
> before having to stop in
> order to add fuel to the gasifier. With my car I add
> fuel approximately
> every 100 km.
> 
> Stainless steel is just as expensive in Finland as
> everywhere else, in the
> junkyard you typically pay 3 Euro per kg for sheet
> metal or straight pipes.
> Nicer details have a higher prize per kg. In Finland
> there anyway is a lot
> of pulp and paper industry and via contacts you
> sometimes can get nice
> material for a really low price. For new material
> you have to pay 6-7eur/kg
> and special details like bends and valves and so on
> are of course really
> expensive for a hobby builder.
> 
> The usage of stainless steel is anyway to recommend
> as the units will last
> for very long and require less service than when
> black steel is used. When
> the material withstands corrosion you also can build
> the system of thinner
> material and save weight. A surface of stainless
> steel also looks better and
> is more easy to keep clean.
> 
> http://www.woodgas.fi/kuvagalleria/bromarvissa.jpg
> 
> This picture is taken after 8000 km driving on
> woodgas. Ohter cars have been
> driven on woodgas for several 100 000 km.
> 
>
http://www.ekoautoilijat.fi/tekstit/suuret_kuvat/Buick1.jpg
> 
> 
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