[Gasification] Charcoal Gasifier No 2.

[Energies Naturals]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifier No 2.


> Kevin Chisholm wrote:
>> Dear Harmon
>>
>> Harmon Seaver wrote:
>>
>> ...del...
>>>    I'd think it would a lot more practical to turn the gas into
>>> electricity, and feed it to the grid, assuming that net metering will
>>> become universal. And I'm sure it will once the energy crunch progresses
>>> a bit more.
>>
>> "Feeding it to the grid" is seldom practical for smaller scale
>> installations.
>
>   That sure flies in the face of the thousands of people who are doing
> it as we speak. Probably more like hundreds of thousands at this point.
> People do it even with just a few solar panels and make it pay.

<<< make it pay ? I professionally install grid tie solar in Spain, a 
country with one of the best feed in tariff in Europe (+42? cts/kWh)  Small 
systems in the kW range  cost more than 8 ?/W, till the moment they actually 
make money.
If you are lucky and nothing breaks during 12- 15 years, you finally might 
get some money back. These installations are mostly built by idealists. 
Vivat !
>
>> For one thing, small scale
>> charring/gasification/pyrolysis systems/engine systems/generators/grid
>> ties and synchronization systems are very expensive per unit of
>> capacity.
>
>    ???? So we should all just forget about our small scale gasifiers?
> Where are all these "very expensive" coming from. Certainly not a small
> gasifier -- dirt cheap built of junk usually. Nor the engine -- usually
>>from a junk vehicle, maybe even free, certainly not in the slightest
> expensive. And the grid interties are also pretty cheap at this point.
> Synchronization is a non-issue. If fact you can build your own
> interties, and if you are using an induction motor as the generator, it
> synchronizes itself automatically.

<<< please don `t consider this  normal. Normal is a newbuilt system you buy 
in a shpo and have installed by a professional and with 2 years of 
guarantee.If you count all the h of the selfmakers (like I am), it even 
looks worse.
Automotive derivated engines will run for ? 4000 h, 6000 ? Perhaps even 1 
year 24/7 ? I doubt it ! Count it all !


>> For another, small scale power is very costly to produce per
>> kw-hr. For still another reason, the Utilities pay very little for the
>> power.
>
>    Actually they pay quite well for the power. Whatever the retail rate
> they charge their customers is what they have to pay you for whatever
> you produce. As long as it's from a renewable fuel. At least that's the
> way it is in most states in the US where they have net metering laws.
> States have different caps on how much you can produce and get the
> retail rate -- in WI here is was 20KWH 24/7 but is changing to 40KWH

<<< 20 kwh in 24 h mean 0.83 kW.
What are we talking about ?

> soon, if it hasn't already. In MN it is 40, and I think it's 100KWH in
> Calif.
>     And as energy costs rise, I'm quite sure we'll see the same net
> metering laws everywhere.
>
>
> -- 
> Harmon Seaver

Rolf
>
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