[Gasification] Biomass Gasification at the "Chin-dia" price

[Peter Singfield]

Tom -- meeting their needs these days is not involving them in processes
that take more of their time than it costs to buy $2.50 diesel!! But a
factor of ten or more -- and might not be there when they need it -- which
is all the time.

Their children are driving tractors plowing fields at the age of ten -- but
still going to their schools as well -- and getting very good practical
educations -- both in and out.

It is not at all like modern life style -- where everyone spends money for
something to do -- as so much "free" time be there.

However -- gasifying chicken manure -- well -- that is another story all
together now.

Noah can be a "winner" -- even on micro level!!

Look -- I can't sell the oil presses to make "free" oil from cohune nuts
either. 

To labor intensive!!

Please understand -- this is not about what I want to do -- but rather what
I have to do.

There are no grants or subsidies here -- and even if there were -- I still
would refuse to get into that kind of box!!

Their priority is not to make power -- but to produce food.

If they can sell corn to buy diesel -- well ---

The time they would be fiddling on that gasifier could mean growing a lot
more corn is they did not!

The work is hard -- the days are long -- they do not need electric power as
much as they need food.

However -- it is so nice to have some electric power -- it is like a drug
you know -- soon they can't sleep without a fan on them -- etc.

Many of my customers only run their gensets for an hour or so per day -- 3
quarts diesel -- $2.50 -- for a week.

They charge a 12 volt battery -- and that gives them fan a some lights for
the night.

Their woman do the wash with a small 3rd world type washing machine during
the hour the genset runs. That is a God send for them.

OK -- your sure you society will never get that poor -- so you can play
with partial combustion gasifier -- that I give you!!

Just hope your right about what you are so sure of -- do you have a plan "B"??

Food for fuel takes on new meaning -- time making power is not time spend
making food!!

(I know -- can't win any grants telling this kind of "truth")


Peter/Belize



At 02:32 PM 6/18/2007 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>Peter,
>
>We've had this discussion before. To meet the needs of your "clientele" what
>is your ("Chin-dia") target price for a gasification system? $600/kWe? And
>what system do you propose to meet it? Where has a system at this price,
>without subsidy, been reliably demonstrated to generate power? Not in China
>or India. That's a challenge that we have discussed at some length on this
>list. 
>
>The rest of your complaints are just noise which people in this "cult" would
>be happy to miss.  
>
>Tom
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org [mailto:gasification-
>> bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Peter Singfield
>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:37 PM
>> To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Biomass Gasification at the "Chin-dia"
>> price
>> 
>> At 11:37 AM 6/18/2007 -0700, Tom Miles wrote:
>> >
>> >A low cost, reliable small scale gasifier genset with 6,000 hours on
>> it is
>> >something you seem to be asking for. That's something we don't see
>> very
>> >often. So how many hours of operation do you have on your Chinese
>> gasifier?
>> >You've spent a lot of bandwidth on it. Is it up and running?
>> >
>> >Tom Miles
>> >
>> 
>> Tom and all --
>> 
>> It is not what I can do -- it is all about what my clientele is willing
>> to
>> invest in to produce power -- off-grid.
>> 
>> Ergo -- hobby VS practical applications.
>> 
>> Try never to lose sight of that.
>> 
>> "Biomass Gasification at the "Chin-dia" price" articles is very
>> "slanted"
>> -- for one thing -- there main example was totally "funded" --
>> 
>> I did note that Daniel Chisholm did not "pick-up" on any of the major
>> discrepancies there.
>> 
>> Neither did anyone else.
>> 
>> Do you know exactly what message that sends to guys like me Tom??
>> 
>> Who is more like the India/Chinese people in goals than you can ever
>> believe!!
>> 
>> It says we no longer are doing scientific investigation -- we now have
>> a
>> "cult" happening.
>> 
>> Hey - -easy to shut me up -- put me down -- etc -- just post all those
>> urls
>> of gasifier systems that meet those extremely basic - -and tolerant
>> (compared to any other power plant in real world use) conditions.
>> 
>> At some point realities must be faced!!
>> 
>> We also need a list where all types of gasification may be allowed to
>> be
>> discussed -- breaking it into numerous topics only suffices to confuse
>> the
>> issues -- keeping everything in their separate boxes -- making sure no
>> new
>> ideas are ever presented.
>> 
>> Does:
>> 
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_listserv.repp.org
>> 
>> "Allow" discussion of gasification processes??
>> 
>> Come on guys -- just what are doing to ourselves!!!
>> 
>> Well -- I will continue to work in real world and continue to solve
>> real
>> problems -- and meet real challenges -- always in the best manner
>> possible
>> -- no matter from which box I pull it out from!!
>> 
>> If you insist my gains should be your losses -- well fine -- so be
>> that.
>> 
>> The most interesting "open" place on the net right now in regards to
>> this
>> topic is found at:
>> 
>> http://bioconversion.blogspot.com/
>> 
>> "Bioconversion" -- no "boxes" -- the entire enchilada!
>> 
>> I remember past times when we list members would get into the real math
>> --
>> say in regards to converion efficiencies using steam reforming compared
>> to
>> partial combustion.
>> 
>> Get into the chemistry -- etc.
>> 
>> Now -- we procrastinate -- nobody really cares anymore --
>> 
>> Just being in a comfortable box is all that matters --
>> 
>> Steam reforming is gasification -- as much so as partial combustion
>> process
>> is --
>> 
>> Supercritical water gasification the same.
>> 
>> Etc -- etc ---
>> 
>> I'm not saying there should be no discussions on partial combustion
>> gasification -- I just wonder when it became a "cult" to exclude all
>> other
>> topics of dicsussion??
>> 
>> Peter/Belize
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
>
>
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