[Gasification] TRIGENERATION

Tue Nov 13 08:10:35 EST 2007

How gasifiers could produce rural development and climate control?. We are working in an model like "A PRODUÇÃO DE ETANOL EM MICRO E MINI DESTILARIAS" whose author is Enrique Ortega and others of Unicamp. We add to these layout column to distill ethanol an evaporator to obtain water. Also with absortion equipment we give chiller energy for rural neccesities. Electric nergy is available from power shaft. We see arid regions as possible field of application. In Texas and Arizona grows "mesquite" an "carob" trees. Peter Felker was studied how to obtain ethanol from prosopis fruits more than thirty years. This fruits was used from millennia by "quichua" poipulation in northern Argentina an Bolivia region. They prepare also bread "patay" and beverage as "chicha" and "aloja". Few years ago Felker participes in an Congress in 
  La Paz city in Entre Rios province , Argentine. Twenty years ago in "Llanos de La Rioja" Argentine we meet with many forestry researchers leadered by Christel Palmberg , boss of Forestry Department of FAO. We make an report for her and spread by our radio program "Argentina Rural, la palabra del campo" emitted by LRA1 Radio Nacional of Buenos Aires in 870 Khz and 41 repeaters covering Argentine an border countries.In La Rioja we visit an orchard of prosopis. In VI Congreso Forestal Argentino we present an technical paper suggesting use an sustainable system of prosopis/alfalfa (perhaps CUF 101)/ beekeeping. Bee boxes made from prosopis logs useful also for furniture and doors and windows in home building. In this era we send to SHELL Oil Company some prosopis nursery planted in his distillery of Dock Sud near Buenos Aires. Three years ago trees have ten feet high placed by side Chemical Lab and Isotopes Store.
  Is my opinion arid lands have more growing potential due to solar radiation measured in Langleys then the challenge is to crop and manage WATER.
  Israeli people uses corn for "hydroponia" production of green feed for cattle.
  We studied this system and is possible to obtain 7.000 metric tons a year by hectare using water and nutrients. Here in Angatuba José Carlos Ramos was tested a system and we named it "watercorn" harvested every 21 days. It plants two kilo of corn by square meter using an carpet of sugar cane bagasse two inches thckness.
  Let be smart, take the challenge ; do it.

  Kyoto Protocol is a sack of lies take care with "Koyote protocol" 

  signed "El Correcaminos"... beep, beep..... aaaassshhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at 3iAlternativePower.com> escribió:  ... Finally, if that wasted energy is coming from biomass it is still wasted, but it is 100% green.

This term "green" not only gives me a problem, but seems to be at the base of many of today's difficulties, even giving birth to fanaticism. For example, where does one decide the line between "green" and whatever its opposite is gets drawn. Certainly, except for the fundamentalists, the line is arbitrary and often moved. 

Having made that statement, biomass may be whatever color one wishes to prescribe, but a great deal of coal and petroleum must be consumed before the first chip can enter the hopper and, I imagine, if the application is dual fueling, then it is a "black balled" project? For that matter, a great deal of coal and oil are consumed before one sees the first chip. 

Please can we move away from trying to convert a carbohydrate like cellulose into a liquid and start discussing the means by which we convert it into a gaseous compound? Granted, it's not a green gas, but what's the problem with a clear clean gas anyway? Let's talk about gasifiers, gasification and gasification systems, while every now and then kick around some ideas about feedstock preparation and delivery systems. 

Thank you. 

Bill Klein 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pels, J.R. (Jan)" 

To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Cellulosic Ethanol a dead end

This 35% result is of course terribly low. It means that for every
gallon EtOH you need two times the energy in that gallon to produce it. 

> If you think converting the 70% starch in corn into sugar and 
> then into ethanol is inefficient, (MAYBE 35% more energy out 
> than in) 

But you have to get your references correct. Is it gasoline from oil?
Well, you don't get 100% gasoline from oil. You waste some of it in the
refinery. (Hard to get a number, since a significant part of the oil is
converted to other useful products).

Let's not forget that alternatives to oil also waste. E.g., tar sands
need 0.6 barrel of oil extra to produce 1 barrel of oil. And then some
is lost when it is processed into gasoline. Fisher-Tropsch diesel from
coal is equally wasteful.

And also, if the lost energy is useful heat it is not wasted. This
applies to all examples.

Finally, if that wasted energy is coming from biomass it is still
wasted, but it is 100% green.

Jan

========================================
Dr. Jan R. Pels
ECN - Biomass, Coals and Environmental Research
P.O. Box 1, 1755 ZG Petten, The Netherlands
telephone: +31-224-564884; fax: +31-224-568487
mobile: +31-6-10923218
e-mail: pels at ecn.nl
========================================

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