[Gasification] TRIGENERATION. and storage

Tue Nov 13 20:49:12 EST 2007

 I learned today.
A new carbon compound made from "corn husks"  (the bit that the corn is attached to" has the special quality of being able to retain 1800 times its own weight in storing methane. Methane as you all know can only be un-economically  stored in liquefied form requiring an extremely  high retention  pressure.
This new compound has a micro porosity which makes it possible to store gas at 500 lb psi in liquid form. Further research, promises even lower pressures, making it a viable fuel for transportation, like, in the shape of a conventional gasoline tank.
Those of us who run gasifiers, in fits and starts, on a batch process, might consider "storing their product" in such a manner as this,  as it seems the stuff will store not only methane but other hydrogen based gases.
All that would be required is: a roadside AC compressor, with an attached suitable oil recovery system to pump their product into a suitable storage tank.
Check out CR4 for details

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 8:10 am
Subject: [Gasification] TRIGENERATION

How gasifiers could produce rural development and climate control?. We are 
working in an model like "A PRODUÇÃO DE ETANOL EM MICRO E MINI DESTILARIAS" 
whose author is Enrique Ortega and others of Unicamp. We add to these layout 
column to distill ethanol an evaporator to obtain water. Also with absortion 
equipment we give chiller energy for rural neccesities. Electric nergy is 
available from power shaft. We see arid regions as possible field of 
application. In Texas and Arizona grows "mesquite" an "carob" trees. Peter 
Felker was studied how to obtain ethanol from prosopis fruits more than thirty 
years. This fruits was used from millennia by "quichua" poipulation in northern 
Argentina an Bolivia region. They prepare also bread "patay" and beverage as 
"chicha" and "aloja". Few years ago Felker participes in an Congress in 
  La Paz city in Entre Rios province , Argentine. Twenty years ago in "Llanos de 
La Rioja" Argentine we meet with many forestry researchers leadered by Christel 
Palmberg , boss of Forestry Department of FAO. We make an report for her and 
spread by our radio program "Argentina Rural, la palabra del campo" emitted by 
LRA1 Radio Nacional of Buenos Aires in 870 Khz and 41 repeaters covering 
Argentine an border countries.In La Rioja we visit an orchard of prosopis. In VI 
Congreso Forestal Argentino we present an technical paper suggesting use an 
sustainable system of prosopis/alfalfa (perhaps CUF 101)/ beekeeping. Bee boxes 
made from prosopis logs useful also for furniture and doors and windows in home 
building. In this era we send to SHELL Oil Company some prosopis nursery planted 
in his distillery of Dock Sud near Buenos Aires. Three years ago trees have ten 
feet high placed by side Chemical Lab and Isotopes Store.
  Is my opinion arid lands have more growing potential due to solar radiation 
measured in Langleys then the challenge is to crop and manage WATER.
  Israeli people uses corn for "hydroponia" production of green feed for cattle.
  We studied this system and is possible to obtain 7.000 metric tons a year by 
hectare using water and nutrients. Here in Angatuba José Carlos Ramos was tested 
a system and we named it "watercorn" harvested every 21 days. It plants two kilo 
of corn by square meter using an carpet of sugar cane bagasse two inches 
thckness.
  Let be smart, take the challenge ; do it.

  Kyoto Protocol is a sack of lies take care with "Koyote protocol" 

  signed "El Correcaminos"... beep, beep..... aaaassshhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at 3iAlternativePower.com> escribió:  ... Finally, if that 
wasted energy is coming from biomass it is still wasted, but it is 100% green.

This term "green" not only gives me a problem, but seems to be at the base of 
many of today's difficulties, even giving birth to fanaticism. For example, 
where does one decide the line between "green" and whatever its opposite is gets 
drawn. Certainly, except for the fundamentalists, the line is arbitrary and 
often moved. 

Having made that statement, biomass may be whatever color one wishes to 
prescribe, but a great deal of coal and petroleum must be consumed before the 
first chip can enter the hopper and, I imagine, if the application is dual 
fueling, then it is a "black balled" project? For that matter, a great deal of 
coal and oil are consumed before one sees the first chip. 

Please can we move away from trying to convert a carbohydrate like cellulose 
into a liquid and start discussing the means by which we convert it into a 
gaseous compound? Granted, it's not a green gas, but what's the problem with a 
clear clean gas anyway? Let's talk about gasifiers, gasification and 
gasification systems, while every now and then kick around some ideas about 
feedstock preparation and delivery systems. 

Thank you. 

Bill Klein 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pels, J.R. (Jan)" 

To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Cellulosic Ethanol a dead end

This 35% result is of course terribly low. It means that for every
gallon EtOH you need two times the energy in that gallon to produce it. 

> If you think converting the 70% starch in corn into sugar and 
> then into ethanol is inefficient, (MAYBE 35% more energy out 
> than in) 

But you have to get your references correct. Is it gasoline from oil?
Well, you don't get 100% gasoline from oil. You waste some of it in the
refinery. (Hard to get a number, since a significant part of the oil is
converted to other useful products).

Let's not forget that alternatives to oil also waste. E.g., tar sands
need 0.6 barrel of oil extra to produce 1 barrel of oil. And then some
is lost when it is processed into gasoline. Fisher-Tropsch diesel from
coal is equally wasteful.

And also, if the lost energy is useful heat it is not wasted. This
applies to all examples.

Finally, if that wasted energy is coming from biomass it is still
wasted, but it is 100% green.

Jan

========================================
Dr. Jan R. Pels
ECN - Biomass, Coals and Environmental Research
P.O. Box 1, 1755 ZG Petten, The Netherlands
telephone: +31-224-564884; fax: +31-224-568487
mobile: +31-6-10923218
e-mail: pels at ecn.nl
========================================

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