[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 15, Issue 15
Nikolaus Foidl
nfoidl at desa.com.bo
Sat Sep 15 12:49:05 EDT 2007
Dear Kevin!
The " black water" or smoke water is used for seed dressing because there is
a vigor enhancing substance in the smoke water. The contaminated soil easily
can be de contaminated by adding some nitrogen and molasses dissolved in
water. Bacteria rapidly clean up the mess. Most of the tars are like sugars
to certain bacteria an energy source.
Best regards Nikolaus
On 9/15/07 10:00 AM, "gasification-request at listserv.repp.org"
<gasification-request at listserv.repp.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Some ideas to work on! (Kevin Chisholm)
> 2. Re: Some ideas to work on! (gfwhell at aol.com)
> 3. Re: removal from list The Reason WHY (gfwhell at aol.com)
> 4. Re: removal from list The Reason WHY (Kevin Chisholm)
> 5. Re: (no subject) (dunno me)
> 6. Re: removal from list The Reason WHY (Kevin Chisholm)
> 7. Re: Heat Exchangers. (Was no Subject) (doug.williams)
> 8. Re: removal from list The Reason WHY (David Shackleton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:22:03 -0300
> From: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Some ideas to work on!
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <46EAB52B.3090603 at ca.inter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dear Ken
>
> Ken Calvert wrote:
>
> ...del...
>> However, a month or so ago we had a good discussion on Humphrey pumps
>> which came to a stop when someone pointed out that the one they saw was
>> surrounded by soil heavily contamined with PAH carcingens and the health
>> authorities raised their hands in righteous holy horror and if I remember
>> rightly closed it all down. Gasifier tars, like other benzene chemicals are
>> really bad news. Maybe if the idea caught on they might put in truckstop
>> disposal points along the 66 to allow one to off load and tank up with
>> clean water again. Enough for the moment. Ken C.
>
> The tar and "black water" issue is a problem area with gasification, and
> attempts to clean up the gas.
>
> Some biomass "tars and smokes" are safe enough that they can be used for
> the seasoning and preservation of foods, while others, such as coal
> tars, are a definite, known and proven health hazard.
>
> Obviously, all "tars and smokes" are not as hazardous as some.
>
> What are the conditions that produce hazardous tars?
>
> Is the "black water" that results from washing woodgas all that
> hazardous? If so, are there any simple treatments that can be done to
> it, to capture hazardous components, so that the bulk of it can be
> disposed of safely?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:54:54 -0400
> From: gfwhell at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Some ideas to work on!
> To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <8C9C52040E09277-5A8-217A at WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Kevin.
> The gas used by the Humphey pumps at Chingford did not produce a lake of tar,
> The pumps provided all the drinking water for London for approximately 50
> years.
>
> I was surfing the net and came across several interesting articles regarding
> micro waves, the one which interested me the most,was the treatment of a
> "flame"with micro waves.
> It would appear that a flame, is burning smoke. Although incandescent ,its
> temperature may not be hot enough to consume all? of the? materials within
> it"s confines. materials remaining unburned .unconverted, uncombined,
> containing water carbon and other half disassociated chemicals which comprise
> the tar which nobody wants.
> If the hot zone of a fire is subjected to a beam of micro waves, something
> remarkable happens. The flames can be converted into a high energy plasma.
> This can be demonstrated? by putting a lighted candle into? a microwave oven
> and switching on. Getting the wife's permission first of course.
> Now? it doesn't take a Quantum mechanic to figure out that the hot gasses from
> a gasifier if treated with micro waves "while still incandescent" could obtain
> air free combustion. The water content of this "smoke" would provide enough
> oxygen to convert any? tar present,? into CO+ H2. carbon has a tendency to
> absorb microwaves and generate heat
> If you are running an engine, on the product of this gasifier, the increase in
> the efficiency of the gas producer, would more than offset losses associated
> with generating the micro waves.
> On the other hand if you need the gas for lighting with gas mantles. forget
> it.
>
> GF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:22 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Some ideas to work on!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Ken
>
> Ken Calvert wrote:
>
> ...del...
>> However, a month or so ago we had a good discussion on Humphrey pumps
>> which came to a stop when someone pointed out that the one they saw was
>> surrounded by soil heavily contamined with PAH carcingens and the health
>> authorities raised their hands in righteous holy horror and if I remember
>> rightly closed it all down. Gasifier tars, like other benzene chemicals are
>> really bad news. Maybe if the idea caught on they might put in truckstop
>> disposal points along the 66 to allow one to off load and tank up with
>> clean water again. Enough for the moment. Ken C.
>
> The tar and "black water" issue is a problem area with gasification, and
> attempts to clean up the gas.
>
> Some biomass "tars and smokes" are safe enough that they can be used for
> the seasoning and preservation of foods, while others, such as coal
> tars, are a definite, known and proven health hazard.
>
> Obviously, all "tars and smokes" are not as hazardous as some.
>
> What are the conditions that produce hazardous tars?
>
> Is the "black water" that results from washing woodgas all that
> hazardous? If so, are there any simple treatments that can be done to
> it, to capture hazardous components, so that the bulk of it can be
> disposed of safely?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:03:59 -0400
> From: gfwhell at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
> To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <8C9C53249B3E617-5A8-27E5 at WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> My dissatisfaction with the conduction of this list is not with the content
> provided by its members or organizers.
> A member disappeared from our midst, I think we all knew him as being somewhat
> opinionated and outspoken a little eccentric perhaps and overbearing in
> stating his case.
> When dealing with some one who has: been there, done that, and can prove it
> .especially if they now live as an alien in the third world, which may or may
> not be the land of his expectations.
> A certain amount of latitude is due: especially if one cares to dig up the
> archives containing his previous contributions to this site.
> A hurricane came through his area recently, and I noticed his absence. I find
> it very sad that I have to inquire where a member has gone. People disappear
> in certain countries lets not make this the thin edge of the wedge by having
> virtual disappearances. He might have been taken away by the wind, or the
> regime in which he has chosen to live, all? because he hasn't made enough
> negative remarks about his home land.
> Whatever the reasons, there should have been a general announcement , even
> better, a vote on his prospective disappearance.
> How do you treat the news of a members death for instance?
>
> GF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Bowen <rustaholic777 at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 8:08 am
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes I did and got very little good help.
> like I said,
> I will have to go start digging through the old posts and see if there is info
> so I can learn from the ground up.
>
> If someone would just tell me where to start to use the wood I mentioned best
> that would be great.
>
> Alan Bowen
> Williamsburg, Michigan
>
> Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote: Dear Alan
>
> Alan Bowen wrote:
>> I agree, Mike.
>> I have been considering to leaving here, but I probably will just turn off
> individual emails then just not read the list much.
>> Very little of anything that has come into my inbox has been of any value to
> me.
>> It is way too far advance from where I am.
>
> Have you posted a note asking for help, guidance or suggestions in your
> area of interest?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>> You have given me the urge to go back and start scanning through the early
> posts.
>>
>> I NEED good info about the best gasifier to build that can be fired with real
> wood blocks that are mostly Southern Yellow Pine from a local truss company.
>> First I want to build one sized to run a ten hp cast iron Kohler engine on a
> generator.
>> With what I would learn there I could move on.
>> Maybe a gasifier for my 1939 Pontiac Silverstreak or even my 1975 Jeep
> Cherokee.
>> I also have a 1965 Willys Jeep CJ5 that would like a re-birth as a gasoline
> free ride.
>>
>> Alan Bowen
>> Williamsburg, Michigan
>>
>> Michael Redler wrote: Toby,
>>
>> With all due respect, nearly every discussion group on the Internet has
>> adopted the same opt-out procedure, making it an unwritten rule that the
>> member always has the ability to remove themselves. I would hardly call
>> that a "suggested method".
>>
>> If a member leaves, it would be fine to ask the former member why he/she
>> left so we could all learn from it. However, under no circumstances
>> should it ever be made a condition for leaving.
>>
>> FWIW, I used to be moderately active, making a contribution here and
>> there, when I thought I had something to ask or share with the group.
>> Recent topics like tar cracking and CO2 recycling have turned me into a
>> lurker since I'm not ready for some of the advanced discussions. So, if
>> I were to take a stab at why people are leaving it's because the subject
>> matter has become increasingly advanced and less diverse than I remember
>> from the past (strictly my opinion). I'm sure I'm not the only one
>> struggling to simply get a reliable design for heat or power before
>> going on to peripheral discussions on CO2 recycling (for example).
>> Please don't misunderstand. These topics are important. It's just that
>> some of us may not be ready for it yet. So, I look for other sources
>> which help me with a basic design and the "nuts and bolts" discussions
>> which could help me in my current situation.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Toby Seiler wrote:
>>> Mr. Bowen,
>>>
>>> I'm interested in who is part of the list and why they leave it. The
> controlled nature of exploratory discussion has caused many to leave that
> could
> contribute immensely to the discussions. In addition to giving notice that
> they
> want to be removed from the list, I would like to see a paragraph why they
> want
> removed, instead of stealthly slipping away by your suggested method.
>>>
>>> Toby Seiler, Seiler Technical Co.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gasification mailing list
>>> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
>> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:14:22 -0300
> From: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <46EB3FFE.4020505 at ca.inter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Dear GF
>
> Peter is a neat guy in many respects. He was behaving as a boorish
> asshole when he was booted from the list. He was adequately warned
> before he was booted, but he persisted with his boorish asshole
> behavious, and he got exactly what he was warned about when he behaved
> exactly as he shouldn't have behaved. Don't blame the List.
>
> At any rate, he had some loss in the hurricane, but it was a minor
> setback. He learned alot from this "warning shot", and has made what he
> feels are appropriate adjustments. His cheer is generally good, and he
> is doing well now.
>
> Touch base with him off-line. He is much nicer in person than on teh
> Lists. You would find him very generous and helpful personally.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> gfwhell at aol.com wrote:
>> My dissatisfaction with the conduction of this list is not with the
>> content provided by its members or organizers. A member disappeared
>> from our midst, I think we all knew him as being somewhat opinionated
>> and outspoken a little eccentric perhaps and overbearing in stating
>> his case. When dealing with some one who has: been there, done that,
>> and can prove it .especially if they now live as an alien in the
>> third world, which may or may not be the land of his expectations. A
>> certain amount of latitude is due: especially if one cares to dig up
>> the archives containing his previous contributions to this site. A
>> hurricane came through his area recently, and I noticed his absence.
>> I find it very sad that I have to inquire where a member has gone.
>> People disappear in certain countries lets not make this the thin
>> edge of the wedge by having virtual disappearances. He might have
>> been taken away by the wind, or the regime in which he has chosen to
>> live, all? because he hasn't made enough negative remarks about his
>> home land. Whatever the reasons, there should have been a general
>> announcement , even better, a vote on his prospective disappearance.
>> How do you treat the news of a members death for instance?
>>
>> GF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Bowen <rustaholic777 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> <gasification at listserv.repp.org> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 8:08 am
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I did and got very little good help. like I said, I will have to
>> go start digging through the old posts and see if there is info so I
>> can learn from the ground up.
>>
>> If someone would just tell me where to start to use the wood I
>> mentioned best that would be great.
>>
>> Alan Bowen Williamsburg, Michigan
>>
>> Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote: Dear Alan
>>
>> Alan Bowen wrote:
>>> I agree, Mike. I have been considering to leaving here, but I
>>> probably will just turn off
>> individual emails then just not read the list much.
>>> Very little of anything that has come into my inbox has been of any
>>> value to
>> me.
>>> It is way too far advance from where I am.
>>
>> Have you posted a note asking for help, guidance or suggestions in
>> your area of interest?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>> You have given me the urge to go back and start scanning through
>>> the early
>> posts.
>>> I NEED good info about the best gasifier to build that can be fired
>>> with real
>> wood blocks that are mostly Southern Yellow Pine from a local truss
>> company.
>>> First I want to build one sized to run a ten hp cast iron Kohler
>>> engine on a
>> generator.
>>> With what I would learn there I could move on. Maybe a gasifier for
>>> my 1939 Pontiac Silverstreak or even my 1975 Jeep
>> Cherokee.
>>> I also have a 1965 Willys Jeep CJ5 that would like a re-birth as a
>>> gasoline
>> free ride.
>>> Alan Bowen Williamsburg, Michigan
>>>
>>> Michael Redler wrote: Toby,
>>>
>>> With all due respect, nearly every discussion group on the Internet
>>> has adopted the same opt-out procedure, making it an unwritten rule
>>> that the member always has the ability to remove themselves. I
>>> would hardly call that a "suggested method".
>>>
>>> If a member leaves, it would be fine to ask the former member why
>>> he/she left so we could all learn from it. However, under no
>>> circumstances should it ever be made a condition for leaving.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I used to be moderately active, making a contribution here
>>> and there, when I thought I had something to ask or share with the
>>> group. Recent topics like tar cracking and CO2 recycling have
>>> turned me into a lurker since I'm not ready for some of the
>>> advanced discussions. So, if I were to take a stab at why people
>>> are leaving it's because the subject matter has become increasingly
>>> advanced and less diverse than I remember from the past (strictly
>>> my opinion). I'm sure I'm not the only one struggling to simply get
>>> a reliable design for heat or power before going on to peripheral
>>> discussions on CO2 recycling (for example). Please don't
>>> misunderstand. These topics are important. It's just that some of
>>> us may not be ready for it yet. So, I look for other sources which
>>> help me with a basic design and the "nuts and bolts" discussions
>>> which could help me in my current situation.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Toby Seiler wrote:
>>>> Mr. Bowen,
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in who is part of the list and why they leave it.
>>>> The
>> controlled nature of exploratory discussion has caused many to leave
>> that could contribute immensely to the discussions. In addition to
>> giving notice that they want to be removed from the list, I would
>> like to see a paragraph why they want removed, instead of stealthly
>> slipping away by your suggested method.
>>>>
>>>> Toby Seiler, Seiler Technical Co.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great
>>>> deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>>> _______________________________________________ Gasification
>>>> mailing list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>>>> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Gasification
>>> mailing list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your
>>> life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo!
>>> Games. _______________________________________________ Gasification
>>> mailing list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing
>> list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check
>> out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
>> _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing
>> list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
>> Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>> _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing
>> list Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:25:04 -0600
> From: "dunno me" <nicklebender at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] (no subject)
> To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Message-ID: <BAY104-F3763574429784812F131D9D3BD0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Quote Doug Williams:
>
> " Doug
> I want to learn not read debates about why people leave.
>
> I have been no part of this current exchange of why people join or leave the
> list, so not sure why you pick me out to address this comment."
>
> I'm sorry Doug Williams, my name is also Doug.
> I type quicker than I proof read, and I tack on after thoughts.
>
> The counter flow heat exchangers I am familiar with move hot and cold fluids
> in opposite directions threw the exchanger to make the most of the
> temperature differential between the fluids. Before I go and gum up one on
> these with tar does is there any advantage.?
> I've read some conflicting information about air preheating and how much gas
> should be coooled before, and after filtering.
>
> There seems to be many wet and dry filtering arguments and methods. Most of
> this is confusing so what is the most effective way.
>
> As for the gasifies we built, I learned that modifications to designs that
> work when you don't fully understand what you are doing results in gasifies
> that fully work.
> Cooling and filtering aren't very important if you can't make clean gas in
> the first place. So I will step back and read what you post for beginners
> Doug before I make anything else wood or charcaol.
>
> Thank you in advance ( and yes I guess this is my forth post then )
> Doug C
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Put Your Face In Your Space with Windows Live Spaces
> http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:17:57 -0300
> From: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <46EB4EE5.4000203 at ca.inter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Kevin Chisholm wrote:
>> Dear GF
>>
>> Peter is a neat guy in many respects...
>
> ...Del..
>
> My apologies to the list. My previous posting was intended as a private
> communication.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:25:37 +1200
> From: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Heat Exchangers. (Was no Subject)
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <000e01c7f761$3b3361e0$0201a8c0 at dougspc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> Hi Doug C, and Colleagues,
>
> You clarified for me:
>
>> The counter flow heat exchangers I am familiar with move hot and cold
>> fluids
>> in opposite directions threw the exchanger to make the most of the
>> temperature differential between the fluids. Before I go and gum up one on
>> these with tar does is there any advantage.?
>
> The key thing about heat exchangers and producer gas:
>
> 1. Where they are situated in the system, before or after soot removal.
>
> 2, At what temperature the gas enters the assembly, because rapid soot
> flocculation occurs if gas is over 500C, reverting to CO2 and soot. Plus to
> remember that even if you remove the soot, and cool the gas, it will still
> make soot if it is heated again to over 500C. (Not that you would want to)
> (:-)
>
> 3. Shape of exchanger tubing, because round tubes of do not cool the water
> vapour core of the flowing gas.
>
> 4. Size of the tubing, because small bores will block quickly unless soot is
> removed first, and any soot coating reduces the cooling efficiency.
>
> 5. Cooling flows should be turbulent on tube surfaces, because steady state
> flow will not scrub the hot boundary layer off the tube surface.
>
> 6. Vertical tube alignment, to prevent solids settling in the tubes, and
> drain condensate.
>
>> I've read some conflicting information about air preheating and how much
>> gas
>> should be cooled before, and after filtering.
>
> Researchers arrive at differing conclusions from their experience. IF the
> gas is destined for an engine, common sense should tell you that it affects
> the volumetric efficiency if the gas is hot. Heating input air to the
> gasifier, is easy to experiment with in practice, and is best done with the
> gasifier that you build, in the place where it is installed.
>
>> There seems to be many wet and dry filtering arguments and methods. Most
> of
>> this is confusing so what is the most effective way.
>
> Unfortunately it is not a question of the most effective way any more, but
> how you dispose of the black liquors from a wet system, or soot from a dry
> system. Both are considered hazardous wastes in most places. My choice is
> dry, mainly because we do not have to remove tar, and because any water
> systems need another cooling system to get rid of the heat. Black liqueur is
> unbelievably dirty, and can foam in certain conditions of gasifier
> application. In a transport mode, and from experience, cooling the water is
> a major problem, unless in a colder climate. Then from experience again,
> freezing of the cleaning water creates another set of things to resolve,
> "usually by adding more stuff " to the system.
>
> While it is easy to just say nothing and tip stuff down drains, or in the
> ditch, we do have a responsibility to the environment. In this respect, I
> appreciate the unseen effort and thought going into producer gas
> conditioning, and look forward to the day when a $10 gizmo is available to
> solve a very complex problem.
>
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:31:02 -0400
> From: "David Shackleton" <david at gripmagazine.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Message-ID: <005401c7f79c$aafffb10$d19efed8 at windowsab7fdf0>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Every list has to be managed or it descends eventually into the chaos of who
> shouts the loudest or longest. Peter was removed not because he had
> inappropriate opinions, or triggered someone's ego, or criticized USA, or
> any such. He was removed because he was rude and personally abusive on the
> list, and would not surrender to explicit direction from the moderator.
> Such is appropriate and effective moderation, in my view. The price of
> civilization is, at root, the willingness to be civil.
>
> I agree, however, than it would have been preferable to make an announcement
> to the list when his removal occurred.
>
> David Shackleton
>
>>
>> My dissatisfaction with the conduction of this list is not with the
>> content provided by its members or organizers.
>> A member disappeared from our midst, I think we all knew him as being
>> somewhat opinionated and outspoken a little eccentric perhaps and
>> overbearing in stating his case.
>> When dealing with some one who has: been there, done that, and can prove
>> it .especially if they now live as an alien in the third world, which may
>> or may not be the land of his expectations.
>> A certain amount of latitude is due: especially if one cares to dig up the
>> archives containing his previous contributions to this site.
>> A hurricane came through his area recently, and I noticed his absence. I
>> find it very sad that I have to inquire where a member has gone. People
>> disappear in certain countries lets not make this the thin edge of the
>> wedge by having virtual disappearances. He might have been taken away by
>> the wind, or the regime in which he has chosen to live, all? because he
>> hasn't made enough negative remarks about his home land.
>> Whatever the reasons, there should have been a general announcement , even
>> better, a vote on his prospective disappearance.
>> How do you treat the news of a members death for instance?
>>
>> GF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan Bowen <rustaholic777 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 8:08 am
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] removal from list The Reason WHY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I did and got very little good help.
>> like I said,
>> I will have to go start digging through the old posts and see if there is
>> info
>> so I can learn from the ground up.
>>
>> If someone would just tell me where to start to use the wood I mentioned
>> best
>> that would be great.
>>
>> Alan Bowen
>> Williamsburg, Michigan
>>
>> Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote: Dear Alan
>>
>> Alan Bowen wrote:
>>> I agree, Mike.
>>> I have been considering to leaving here, but I probably will just turn
>>> off
>> individual emails then just not read the list much.
>>> Very little of anything that has come into my inbox has been of any value
>>> to
>> me.
>>> It is way too far advance from where I am.
>>
>> Have you posted a note asking for help, guidance or suggestions in your
>> area of interest?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>> You have given me the urge to go back and start scanning through the
>>> early
>> posts.
>>>
>>> I NEED good info about the best gasifier to build that can be fired with
>>> real
>> wood blocks that are mostly Southern Yellow Pine from a local truss
>> company.
>>> First I want to build one sized to run a ten hp cast iron Kohler engine
>>> on a
>> generator.
>>> With what I would learn there I could move on.
>>> Maybe a gasifier for my 1939 Pontiac Silverstreak or even my 1975 Jeep
>> Cherokee.
>>> I also have a 1965 Willys Jeep CJ5 that would like a re-birth as a
>>> gasoline
>> free ride.
>>>
>>> Alan Bowen
>>> Williamsburg, Michigan
>>>
>>> Michael Redler wrote: Toby,
>>>
>>> With all due respect, nearly every discussion group on the Internet has
>>> adopted the same opt-out procedure, making it an unwritten rule that the
>>> member always has the ability to remove themselves. I would hardly call
>>> that a "suggested method".
>>>
>>> If a member leaves, it would be fine to ask the former member why he/she
>>> left so we could all learn from it. However, under no circumstances
>>> should it ever be made a condition for leaving.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I used to be moderately active, making a contribution here and
>>> there, when I thought I had something to ask or share with the group.
>>> Recent topics like tar cracking and CO2 recycling have turned me into a
>>> lurker since I'm not ready for some of the advanced discussions. So, if
>>> I were to take a stab at why people are leaving it's because the subject
>>> matter has become increasingly advanced and less diverse than I remember
>>> from the past (strictly my opinion). I'm sure I'm not the only one
>>> struggling to simply get a reliable design for heat or power before
>>> going on to peripheral discussions on CO2 recycling (for example).
>>> Please don't misunderstand. These topics are important. It's just that
>>> some of us may not be ready for it yet. So, I look for other sources
>>> which help me with a basic design and the "nuts and bolts" discussions
>>> which could help me in my current situation.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Toby Seiler wrote:
>>>> Mr. Bowen,
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in who is part of the list and why they leave it. The
>> controlled nature of exploratory discussion has caused many to leave that
>> could
>> contribute immensely to the discussions. In addition to giving notice
>> that they
>> want to be removed from the list, I would like to see a paragraph why they
>> want
>> removed, instead of stealthly slipping away by your suggested method.
>>>>
>>>> Toby Seiler, Seiler Technical Co.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
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>>> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
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>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
>> http://mail.aol.com
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>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007
>> 9:34 PM
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>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 15, Issue 15
> ********************************************
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