[Gasification] Glaubers Salts for Thermal Storage

Fri Apr 4 10:52:29 CDT 2008

Is there a freezeup safety advantage for using glaubers ?
On Apr 4, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Mark Ludlow wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> True enough, but the attraction with Glaubers is the low temperature  
> change
> of phase (32C). There's no harm in depending entirely on sensible  
> heat, as
> you suggest, and when your sulfate is liquid, the solution is 2/3  
> water
> which you can heat to 90C if you like. Solar space heating systems  
> using
> sulfate typically didn't run that warm on the top end (I've only  
> seen one).
> The example I used could run at a constant 32C.
>
> (I'm not trying to sell these!)
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Basterfield [mailto:ken at basterfield.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:38 AM
> To: mark at ludlow.com; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and  
> gasification'
> Subject: RE: [Gasification] Glaubers Salts for Thermal Storage
>
> Hello Greg & Mark
> 5 tonne of water would give you 1,100,000 Btu if cycled over a  
> sensible 90C
> to 35C ( underfloor heating ) and it is much cheaper than any phase  
> change
> chemical. It can also be used as its own transport mechanism.
> 5t ~ 11,000lb through 90-35C i.e. 55C range  is 99F range so  
> 99x11000 ~
> 1.1MBtu
> KISS
> Ken
>
>
>
> I've stopped 2,021 spam and fraud messages. You can too!
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Mark  
> Ludlow
> Sent: 04 April 2008 07:48
> To: info at cangas.ca; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Glaubers Salts for Thermal Storage
>
>
> Greg,
>
> I am thinking of sodium sulfate--what you get when you mix sodium  
> hydroxide
> (lye) and sulfuric acid. You can dissolve it at a 1:2 ratio with  
> water if
> the water is warmed but as it starts to freeze at 90F it gives off  
> 83 BTU/lb
> of heat for every lb. that freezes. If you have 5-tons of it and  
> some way to
> heat it to its liquid phase and extract the heat, you could recover  
> 830,000
> BTUs of heat, just from the change of liquid to solid. Of course it  
> takes an
> equal amount of energy to make it liquid again. 8.3 therms is worth  
> about
> $12 in natural gas terms so it's fairly effective as a moderate  
> temperature
> thermal battery for home heating. Plus, it's cheap. The expense is  
> in the
> heat exchangers that transfer heat between the salt and your working  
> fluid
> (likely water/glycol in AK). Lots of things have been tried; many  
> work, more
> or less.
>
> I misspoke when I said it was corrosive. It's not.
>
> I think it would work well when your district heating system is down  
> for
> tinkering, Greg.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Greg  
> Manning
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:38 PM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Glaubers Salts for Thermal Storage
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but we use this as "tractor salts" for rear  
> tires,
> it can't freeze, and is as dense as rock by itself.
>
> "Calcium & Water"
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Miles
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:34 PM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: [Gasification] Glaubers Salts for Thermal Storage
>
>
> Can someone respond to an inquiry about Glauber's slats for thermal  
> storage?
> I received the following today:
>
>
>
> "We are getting ready to install thermal storage to augment our  
> gasifying
> wood boiler and solar hot water systems, and I was wondering if you  
> could
> give me a thumbnail sketch of the viability for Glauber's salt as  
> opposed to
> water.  Any special considerations that you are aware of?  Can you  
> point me
> to any successful residential applications that you know of?  Thanks  
> a lot
> for you help. "
>
>
>
> The application is in the interior of Alaska.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Tom Miles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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