[Gasification] wood gasifiers

Sun Apr 6 15:19:45 CDT 2008

i see little reason a traditional gasifier type unit should request
the prices we currently see.  they are, afterall, mostly tank shaped
vessels made out of mild steel.  the only thing that is expensive here
is the expertise, and the assumption that one must recover it over a
rather low number of purchases.  i am somewhat baffled why even the
indian manufacturers are setting such high price points.  yes,
industrial 24/7 uses have requirements that justify high prices.  but
not the individual scale, diy, developing world and research type
uses.  there is much room for lowering the prices and increasing the
expertise access for these more hands on applications.  the GEK kit is
one attempt at this.  (still same old pictures here:
http://theshipyard.org/gek/)

here's our proposition for gasifier cost reduction:

the manufacture of the GEK kit has been reduced to rolled sheet metal
tubes, and round end plates/rings.  no esoteric shapes or sizes of
metal to purchase.  only typical thickness mild steel sheet metal is
needed.  with this we can reproduce the "obtainium" tanks around which
the unit was designed and the first one was built.  so really, you can
build the design from common obtainium tanks, or the tube and rings
shapes we purpose manufacture.  same design: two manufacturing
scenarios.

we can cut all the tube shapes for both the reactor and cyclone out of
one 4x8' sheet of 1/16" sheet metal on the cnc plasma cutter.  all the
end plates and rings are similarly cut from about one third of a sheet
of 1/8"  sheet metal.   thus two cad files and two presses of "go" and
we have all the puzzle pieces to weld together to make a the vessels
for a gasifier reactor and cyclone.  this includes two basic main
reactor inserts: one as the base to explore all the nozzle and
constriction type reactors, and one as the base to explore all the the
open core types, including multipoint air injection, TLUD, and biochar
pyrolysis units.  the parts to add on for each of these sub designs
will be additional purchases or user made.

to this one must add the plumbing, radiator and filter.  most builders
can find and understand these components more easily than the reactor
and cyclone, so i anticipate most will want to buy without these
components in the kit.

thus we can offer the lowest level of the GEK kit as simply all these
cut pieces, still flat, and mailed between two pieces of cardboard.
you find a roller and welder to assemble.  this will be around $500.
if we roll and weld the tubes and plates together i'm thinking
something around $1000.  if we assemble everything done from beginning
to end of the system, with pluming, radiator, burner, gauges, etc., we
should be somewhere around $3000.  or people can take the cad file and
set up manufacturing anywhere they can find sheet metal, a roller and
a cnc plasma cutter.  well, you can use a manual plasma cutter too,
but it is slower and less accurate.  given the simple nature of the
raw materials, manufacturing should also be possible through the
emachine "manufacturing on demand" type operations.  thus with this
kit we are open sourcing a design, as well as a manufacturing process.
 or you can just use the shareware design instructions and build it
from local junk.  i think the shareware instructions will be a
suggested payment of $50.

i am interested in input on these price points.  how do these work for people?

do note that in this scenario we are NOT providing the full service
expertise for set up and running.  the expertise for configuring and
adapting this base to specific use situations will grow over time
through a discussion board and wiki.  if the base unit is shared, then
configuration scenarios for specific fuel and use situations, new add
ons, use reports and real data can be shared and directly applied by
others.  direct collaboration is now possible and good running
solutions likely.   the kit is not promising turnkey performance
(which is an unwise promise given the tempermental nature of a
downdraft).  rather, it is promising full flexibility to reconfigure
all relevant parameters towards adequate performance or running a
specific testing scenario.

yes, all these traditional downdraft types are highly sensitive to
fuel type and other run parameters.  they need to be configured to
specific fuels and those fuels well controlled.  and this is usually
provided by an expert consultant onsite, at high dollar.  this is one
of the pinch points which creates the current high cost of entering
the gasifier world.  i think we can moderately fix this problem with
some minor information engineering for the small scale user.  not the
industrial user, mind you.  that is a different problem.

the physical GEK base also anticipates other more elaborate
multi-stage and kinetic bed gasifier types which i personally believe
can solve most of the fuel sensitivity problems of current gasifiers.
these add ons will come later in the process.  right now we're just
trying to well model and provide access to the current state of
affairs.

jim

On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:43 AM, mark crorey <mark.crorey at att.net> wrote:
> A very major cost of a gasifier to electricity system would be the generator
>  system.  Electrical equipment could cost easily $100.00 per kw if it is
>  industrial quality.
>
>  Would considering a price per kw / year be a more effective way of assessing
>  costs? (rather than cost / kw initially)
>
>  Mark Crorey
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
>
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
>  Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:37 PM
>  To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
>  Subject: Re: [Gasification] wood gasifiers
>
>
>
> Mr. Krishnaswamy,
>
>  This exchange illustrates the major challenge that we've had with
>  considering small scale gasification for commercial use in North America.
>  Our fuel, labor and capital costs are all high relative to the value of the
>  heat and electricity that we produce. US $0.10/kWh is a good price. In some
>  areas utility incentives for small generator net metering can push that up
>  to about $0.14/kWh. But we still need to meet a target cost of about
>  $3,000/kW for the capital plant.
>
>  Recent demonstration gasifiers have been going in for $5,000-$11,000/kW.
>  Costs have come "down" to $250,000/50 kW, or about $5,000/kW but they need
>  to come down further to be economic. Still there are several groups that are
>  working to develop commercial systems.
>
>  Is Energreen Power Ltd. ready to export the IISc system to North America? If
>  so there are projects that could probably get demonstration funding to
>  bridge to more favorable economics. These are in the 25kWe-300 kWe range.
>  I'm sure there are companies the would be interested.
>
>  Of particular interest is the promise of the IISc technology for using
>  chipped, and sawdust-like fuels. I understand that the tar burning feature
>  of the open core reburn technology may offer more fuel flexibility than a
>  typical downdraft.
>  See
>  http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Portals/0/Technologies/Gasification%20Technol
>  ogy.pdf
>  We have a lot of mulch like wood waste available from portable chippers.
>  What is the smallest size of fuel that can be gasified in the IISc systems
>  as provide by Energreen Power?
>
>  Kind regards,
>
>  Tom Miles
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim mason
website: www.whatiamupto.com
current project: mechabolic (http://www.mechabolic.org)
announce list: http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com