[Gasification] who killed the electric car?

Tue Apr 8 23:10:12 CDT 2008

I am from India and so I am not aware of some American/ European
expressions.
I am curious to know the expansion of 'LOL' as I have found this on some
emails
in the List

Thanks in advance

K.S. Viswanathan

On 4/9/08, Greg Manning <a31ford at inetlink.ca> wrote:
>
>
> LOL, I keep Seeing stuff relating to Greg H, and think it is for me...
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Samson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:08 PM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] who killed the electric car?
>
>
> Greg
>
> In the movie, most people wanted to buy their cars back in California. In
> florida they already use electric golfcarts for local trip. I think an
> electric vehicle for most could be be a great second vehicle for local
> trips
> where much of your mileage is done. Most people don't live in severe
> winter
> climates.
>
> If you look at the cost per km or mile, a light electric vehicle is pretty
> interesting option as is a biogas fuelled vehicle. I think if we never had
> a
> liquid fossil fuel energy dowry we would be moving mainly on electricity
> or
> biogas in temperate climates. If you look at the energy conversion
> efficiency of cellulosic ethanol you are looking at 340 litres per tonne
> (according to the Iogen web site). That's a conversion efficiency of 1
> tonne
> of biomass into 7.13 GJ of energy or about 40%. Instead you could gasify
> the
> biomass to produce heat and power at 85% efficiency and avoid spending
> 350-500 million on a cellulosic ethanol plant.  To me it's a much better
> option and unlike cellulose ethanol is ready to go. If we are at peak oil
> as
> many are now discussing (and Shell is paying for advertisements about the
> problem of peak oil), it's the best substitute option we have.
>
> Roger Samson
>
> Executive Director
>
> REAP-Canada
>
> Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13
>
> Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9
>
> T: (514) 398-7743
>
> T: (514) 398-7972
>
> E: rsamson at reap-canada.com
>
> W: www.reap-canada.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Greg and
> April
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:28 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gallon Newsletter overviews Biofuels and
> BillC-33
>
> Roger,
>
> It wasn't just ethanol that killed the electric car, it was performance
> when
>
> off the test track ( in mild climates ) into the real world that also had
> a
> major impact.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of ethanol ( I think butanol is the way
> to
>
> go my self ), but performance in winter weather and performance in hill
> country ( or worse yet hill country in cold weather ), makes even ethanol
> a
> better choice than batteries.
>
>
> In weather below 32* ( and more so below zero ) the batteries have major
> problems, and small electric generators just don't have the capacity to
> over
>
> come it.    When the Prius was first released and then sold in Denver CO,
> quite a few were bought so people could efficiently commute into Denver,
> from outlying areas.
>
> That first winter, a full 10-15% of all towing calls were from Prius
> owners,
>
> that were stuck, because the cold weather drained their batteries, and the
> small generator wasn't big enough to keep the vehicle moving at more than
> a
> snails pace.
>
> Few Prius were sold the following year - and there was a surge in Prius
> trade-in's for vehicles with conventional engines.
>
>
> Greg H.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Samson" <rsamson at reap-canada.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:52
> Subject: [Gasification] Gallon Newsletter overviews Biofuels and Bill C-33
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The gallon newsletter is the most widely read environment newsletter
> from
> > Canada which summarizes leading environmental news stories
> >
> > http://www.cialgroup.com/gallonletter.html
> >
> > Here is their recent summary Vol. 13, No. 3, April 7, 2008 on Biofuels
> and
> > Bill C-33
> >
> > roger
> >
> > ps. Everybody should watch the movie :'who killed the electric car" and
> > all
> > you gasification fans should promote electric cars instead of ethanol
> > (grain
> > or cellulose) as a better option
> >
> >
> >
> > BIOFUELS AND BILL C-33
> >
> >
> >
> > Canada's Parliament is reviewing Bill C-33 to develop new renewable
> fuels
> > regulations through amendments of the Canadian Environmental Protection
> > Act
> > CEPA. The regulations are intended to:
> >
> > * Reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 4 megatonnes per year in the
> > transportation sector and to
> > * Benefit Canadian agriculture by boosting demand for feedstocks and
> > creating new markets for agricultural products.
> >
> > The regulations will require minimum renewable fuel content of 5% or
> more
> > in
> > gasoline and 2% in diesel and heating oil by 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > REAP: Direct Heat from Pellets
> >
> >
> >
> > Making a presentation to the House of Commons Standing Committee on
> > Agriculture and Agri-food on February 28 was Roger Samson, Executive
> > Director of REAP (Resource Efficient Agricultural Production) Canada
> based
> > on a 2008 study REAP conducted in association with BIOCAP Canada
> > Foundation.
> > The study is called Analysing Ontario Biofuel options: Greenhouse Gas
> > Mitigation Efficiency and Costs.
> >
> >
> >
> > Samson provided a lifecycle GHG emissions for bioenergy which indicated
> > that
> > Canadian corn ethanol, soybean or canola biodiesel have the highest GHG
> > emissions compared to electrical power generation from renewable sources
> > such as manure and straw pellets. Electricity from wind power has the
> > lowest
> > GHG emissions but close are heating directly with geothermal,
> switchgrass
> > pellets, and solar. The lifecycle analysis is highly dependent on
> > assumptions and available data and the report recommends better
> accounting
> > systems. For example, some studies do not account for carbon-rich
> forests
> > and grasslands converted to croplands with a net loss of carbon storage.
> > While governments provide incentives for green power and liquid
> biofuels,
> > there are few support programs for green heat.
> >
> >
> >
> > Issues raised by the proposed regulations are identified as:
> >
> > * Conversion of grasslands which store carbon into annual crops which
> > could "present a substantial risk to the global carbon cycle."
> > * Canada already imports 2 million tonnes of corn per year. Surplus
> > land for crop production doesn't exist so the regulations would benefit
> > out-of-country farmers as imports for both feed for livestock and for
> > ethanol will have to increase.
> > * Ethanol producers use natural gas which may have to be imported
> > within the next two decades according to the National Energy Board.
> > * Cellulosic ethanol may not be cost competitive because it is
> > inefficient to produce (a large amount of biomass is needed with only a
> > 39%
> > conversion efficiency) and capital intensive.
> > * Pellet plants in contrast convert almost all of the biomass to solid
> > fuel pellets, a proven technology, at a fraction of the cost of the
> > capital
> > cost of cellulosic ethanol plants, still not commercially viable.
> > * Biodiesel from animal fats, waste vegetable oils and off-spec feed
> > grains benefit both the economy and the environment but biodiesel from
> > seed
> > oil crops is too expensive.
> >
> > REAP recommends that the bill be withdrawn because:
> >
> > 1. It cannot achieve the 4 megatonnes of CO2 emission reduction.
> >
> > 2. It will benefit US corn growers.
> >
> > 3. It lacks fiscal responsibility. CO2 offsets from corn are 6-10 times
> > more
> > expensive than other renewable energy sources.
> >
> >
> >
> > Instead REAP recommends:
> >
> > * A results-based policy framework to ensure effective carbon offset
> > efficiencies and high energy output per hectare.
> > * Move towards perennial crops rather than using annual food crops as
> > fuel which will lead to land conversion of natural areas, food inflation
> > and
> > to global food insecurity.
> > * The government should not pick winners but apply incentives using
> > marketplace principles. A $25/tonne carbon tax and a $25/tonne green
> > carbon
> > incentive would ensure parity among all the renewable energy players,
> > reduce
> > impacts on fossil fuel energy users and provide incentives to switch to
> > green carbon sources.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger Samson
> >
> > Executive Director
> >
> > REAP-Canada
> >
> > Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13
> >
> > Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9
> >
> > T: (514) 398-7743
> >
> > T: (514) 398-7972
> >
> > E:  <mailto:rsamson at reap-canada.com> rsamson at reap-canada.com
> >
> > W:  <http://www.reap-canada.com/> www.reap-canada.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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