[Gasification] biogas vehicle

[Roger Samson]

Kevin 

We have a paper coming out soon on the energy balances of the main
alternatives.  

Roughly you can get about 6500 m3 (150 GJ) of biogas from 1 ha of corn
silage. With corn ethanol you get about 3500 l/ha (about 72 GJ). Roughly you
capture twice as much energy from farmland by using biogas as the energy
carrier. The main point is that the net energy gain with corn ethanol is
pathetic, only about 15 GJ/ha if you assume a 1.25:1 energy output to input
ratio (Corn ethanol is largely just a carbon laundering program, where
fossil fuels are sold as renewable fuels and taxpayers foot the bill) . Corn
silage biogas would have an energy output to input ratio of about 4:1 as its
largely a biological conversion process.  The net energy gain is about 7
times greater than a corn grain to liquid fuel strategy. That's why germans
are putting up biogas facilities in spades and aren't going corn ethanol.
As I say in my farm meetings if you look at it as a bioenergy horserace, the
US government is betting on the donkey. 
 
I think the cheapest transport option is switchgrass pellets/briquettes into
electric from organic rank cycle power systems or larger CHP systems where
the thermal energy is fully used.  I hope to get a nice speedy electric bike
this summer for my short commute. I find it very sad to see the nightly news
and see the food riots. The US will use 80 million tonnes of corn to make
ethanol this year. That's enough calories to feed about 400 million people.
The use of annual grains and oilseeds as transport fuels must end or
governments will begin to fall in developing countries. 

Roger



Roger Samson

Executive Director

REAP-Canada

Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13

Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9

T: (514) 398-7743

T: (514) 398-7972

E: rsamson at reap-canada.com

W: www.reap-canada.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:05 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Cc: 'Toby Seiler'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] biogas vehicle

Dear Roger

Thanks very much for the Paper. The illustration is especially vivid.

Given that the biomethane process inherently yields a gas which is about 
50% CH4 and 50% CO2, representing approximately a 50% energy loss as CO2,
and
given that in wood gasification, "good gas" has a CO/CO2 ratio of about 
3 (http://www.woodgas.com/gasification.htm), and that a "good gasifier" 
gets 70+% thermal efficiency,

wouldn't wood or grass gasification be an even better source of engine 
energy?

Best wishes,

Kevin
Roger Samson wrote:
> Toby 
>
>  
>
> Do a net search on biogas for transport. Here is one overview of what is
> required. 
>
>
http://www.biogasmax.eu/media/biogas_upgrading_and_use_2004__062944200_1011_
> 24042007.pdf
>
>  
>
> It's a bit complicated but quite a bit simpler than cellulosic ethanol.
The
> main point is that if you are looking to move vehicles using crops grown
on
> farmland as the energy source, biogas will get you furthest as an energy
> carrier. One ha will get you  67,000 km on biogas which beats all other
> transport options. 
>
>  
>
> See page 3 of this document which compares corn ethanol, biodiesel and
> biogas. The whole booklet this comes from is very informative. 
>
>  
>
>
http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/consultation/doc/2007_06_04_biofuels/industry
> _private/eon_en.pdf
>
> regards
>
>  
>
> Roger Samson
>
> Executive Director
>
> REAP-Canada
>
> Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13
>
> Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9
>
> T: (514) 398-7743
>
> T: (514) 398-7972
>
> E:  <mailto:rsamson at reap-canada.com> rsamson at reap-canada.com
>
> W: www.reap-canada.com <http://www.reap-canada.com/>  
>
>   _____  
>
> From: Toby Seiler [mailto:seilertechco at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:48 PM
> To: rsamson at reap-canada.com
> Cc: gasification at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: biogas vehicle
>
>  
>
> Roger,  
>
>  
>
> What then is the most direct route for a vehicle to be powered from
biogas?
> Is it torrefied pellet fuel, gasified to a boiler for steam? 
>
>  
>
> Toby Seiler
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>   



_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
http://info.bioenergylists.org