[Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL

Sat Apr 12 01:02:57 CDT 2008

Now you Guys are into something!  I think that a lawn is the best resource 
that a  Sustainable DIYer can have.  Fresh grass has 5 times the amount of 
gas potential that cow manure does.   O.K.  A nicely mowed grass lawn only 
traps around 1% of the incident photosynthesis, as against  12-20%  for what 
ever level of  Silicon panels that you buy into but  lawn looks nice and its 
cheap.  If you pack fresh grass into silage bags or bale it and wrap it you 
can store up potential energy for years!  O.K. a biogas plant that will turn 
it into CNG does cost a mite, but  a natural gas convertion kit for your car 
is a fraction of the cost of an electric hybrid.  I really think you guys 
are talking in the wrong Discussion Group, but I for one will follow your 
results with great interrest. I have plans available for New Zealand farmers 
biogas plants that run on the weeds that they cut off their roadsides.   In 
N.Z. The commercial lawn mowing people have to pay to dump their mowings at 
the local tip.  A couple of phone calls and I would be swamped with 
contractors dumping their  potential biogas fuel all over my yard.  What 
could be cheaper than That!!!  Ken C.

       ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Winfried Rijssenbeek" <w.rijssenbeek at rrenergy.nl>
To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:20 AM
Subject: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL

> Roger, and others interesting Biogas from pasture
>
> Indeed we plan to do a trial with one ha of improved tropical pastur,
> yielding 30 TM/ha/yr. We will have to cut 9 to 10 times/annum. We plan to
> use the biogas (plug flow reactor) for a simple gas engine generator. The
> nutrients leaving the digestor are fed back to the land. It is to my
> understanding as good as the so called 2 gen biofuels! For Honduras we
> calculated that 12 families could live of 1 ha with per family 0.8 KW for 
> 8
> hours!!! What I would find interesting is if the biogas (polluted CH4) can
> also be brought to a syndiesel (Shell uses GTL on large scale, but can it 
> be
> done on small scale ? Is it feasible? If so then all energy carriers
> (electricity gas for cooking and fuel for cars could be made from pasture.
> Seems great to me!
>
> Wonder if any of you guys would know?
>
> Winfried Rijssenbeek
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Roger Samson
> Sent: vrijdag 11 april 2008 20:48
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] biogas vehicle
>
> Harmon
>
> Our agency promotes native perennial grasses on marginal lands as the most
> sustainable energy crop feedstock option. If you don't like the fact you
> don't get food from the corn silage biogas just grow half as much and the
> other half in food corn. That way you get both a larger net energy gain 
> and
> more food calories than the corn ethanol option on the same area. You do 
> the
> math.
>
> The more sustainable option is just grow perennials grass for heat (and 
> CHP)
> and energy grass and manure for biogas in temperate regions.
>
>
> Roger Samson
>
> Executive Director
>
> REAP-Canada
>
> Box 125 Centennial Centre CCB13
>
> Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9
>
> T: (514) 398-7743
>
> T: (514) 398-7972
>
> E: rsamson at reap-canada.com
>
> W: www.reap-canada.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Harmon Seaver
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:40 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] biogas vehicle
>
> Roger Samson wrote:
>> Kevin
>>
>> We have a paper coming out soon on the energy balances of the main
>> alternatives.
>>
>> Roughly you can get about 6500 m3 (150 GJ) of biogas from 1 ha of corn
>> silage. With corn ethanol you get about 3500 l/ha (about 72 GJ). Roughly
> you
>> capture twice as much energy from farmland by using biogas as the energy
>> carrier.
>
>   There is a very, very serious and major error in this calculation.
> When you make the feedstock into ethanol, you have just as much food
> left, and, in fact, much higher quality, much more digestible food left
> over, in the form of the spent mash. So you are producing both food and
> fuel.
>   When you use the same feedstock to make methane, you might get more
> fuel, but you get no food at all. And the fuel you get is highly
> inferior to ethanol as a vehicle fuel simple because it requires much
> greater modification of the vehicle and it is impossible to carry enough
> methane to go very far.
>   Plus, of course, the fact that corn is a horrible feedstock for
> ethanol or methane, you can find a great many feedstocks that will give
> you two, three, even four times as much ethanol as corn, and that can be
> grown in sustainable, permaculture fashion -- plant once, never again,
> no fertilizer or herbicides needed.
>   Building smaller neighborhood or farm-scale ethanol plants as the
> basis for permaculture operations is the way of the future. Digesters
> making methane can and should be a part of that operation, especially
> for the manure from the livestock you feed the spent mash to, and also
> feed with the light stillage drained from the mash after distillation.
>
>
> -- 
> Harmon Seaver
>
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