[Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
Greg Manning
a31ford at inetlink.ca
Sun Apr 13 10:23:39 CDT 2008
Hi Mark, and list.
I'd like to point you to the work I've been doing over the last 7 some odd
years, the main portion of it being downdraft gasification, however, the
"unattended" portion of operation has also been a main point of study also.
Unattended operation, I would have to say, is the "breakthrough" (if we can
call it that) that I have attained, I'm speaking of "X" hours or days,
during a session (example 800 lb "side bunker hopper", gasifier unit runs
7lb/hr = 4 3/4 days unattended operation).
regards,
Greg Manning,
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Ludlow
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 1:33 AM
To: 'Ken Calvert'; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
Thanks, Ken!
It's true that there's a real overlap of interest in groups and individuals
who, generally, wish to use biomass to produce fuel or energy sources to
replace fossil fuels.
Gasification seems like a big club to swing--compared to some nifty
biodigestion of organic feedstock--but it's also the most practical
down-scale technology that I have discovered. In the end-analysis, the
resultant products of gasification and anaerobic digestion have similar
functional characteristics: gases intended to, in their most favorable
incarnations, substitute for commercial hydrocarbons and be able to fuel IC
engines.
At the individual producer scale, gasification seems like a winning
solution, allowing the assumption that these systems will not run
unattended. But for the future, it seems reasonable to assume that processes
mediated by active biological organisms will save the day. It's difficult
for me to escape the essential wonderment of photosynthesis, which
accomplishes what we do so inefficiently with solar power alone.
Downstream processes, be they gasification/pyrolysis, digestion, or some
direct enzymatic conversion to gasoline (I wish!) all depend upon the
upstream process of photosynthesis. The more closely our analogs of this
natural process become, the more likely we will be able to wade out of the
global morass we are in.
The fact that there are several pathways of recycling biomass into more
fundamental, useful constituents, mimics the courses of events in Nature.
Some things rot; others go up in flame. All begin simple, gain complexity
and end where they began.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Calvert [mailto:renertech at xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:25 PM
To: mark at ludlow.com; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
Mark Says--
"Maybe I'm confused also, but fermentation does not necessarily imply
methane
production. It depends on the microbe".
I have the feeling that if this talk about fermentation was
switched over to the Discussion Group on Digestion,- I would be accused of
trying to teach my Grandmother!!. Making methane out of biomass is no
longer seen to be simple. As far as is known at present the Digestion
pathway has four or more steps and you can opt out of or into the pathaway
at any of these points. 1/. Hydrolysis breaks down sugars and some polymers
by introducing water molecules into the middle of things. Cracking the
starch polymer into sugars and then some of those sugars into Alcohols is
the hydrolysis step. Step 2/. is the Acidogenesis which takes step one a
stage further into organic acids. And ethanol into vinegar or lactates
into lactic acid is typical. Step 3/. is acetogenesis, where longer chain
fatty acids, such as lactic acid, get progressively reduced down to acetic
acid, or acetates, and gives off a molecule of carbon dioxide and hydrogen
at each step. That is what is called 'Dark Hydrogen' generated by
fermentation rather than oxidation/reduction pathways. Its only Step
4/., Methanogenesis that involves those specific bacteria and they can
pretty much only work on acetate salts to make methane.
So whether you want a sugar, an alcohol, a fatty acid or methane, you opt
in or out of the farmentation pathway as it suits your requirements.
And a similar sort of thing happens with Gasification. Complex biomass
goes through a pathway that finally ends up with a mixture of carbon
monoxide and hydrogen. If its done with air the nitrogen is left in and its
called Producer gas. If the nitrogen is kept out
its called Synthesis gas, which is what the catalytic crackers produce from
the petroleum oil field wastes and then another process Thermally Reforms
it back into synthetic petrol, diesel and all the kinds of molecules that we
value. They can do that with oilfield methane too! So, as small scale DIY
types we are only operating on a section of each of these two major
pathways. If it didn't cost so much to gather enough biomass together to
work a commercial size refinery, we wouldn't need to worry about all this.
We could just continue to switch on the electric power and run our cars
for our own personal convienience. And all our rubbish could get trucked to
the local refinery, along with the biomass, and converted into synthesis gas
as well. You don't get dioxins in synthesis gas! When will we do away with
'Economy of Scale', and learn to do it all within our own communities?
Ken C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ludlow" <mark at ludlow.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
Maybe I'm confused also, but fermentation does not necessarily imply methane
production. It depends on the microbe. Methanogenic (familiar in ruminants)
bacteria produce CH4 and CO2; other fermentations (with Lactobacillus),
produce lactic acid; still other breakdowns produce ammonia if there are
amines such as proteins (i.e. chlorophylls) present.
There's no single cascade from living matter to simple molecules.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Rolf Uhle
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:48 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
Now I´m confused:
What are we talking about, combustion (cigar, smoldering) or fermentation (
biogas) ?
Rolf
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 08:51:27 -0500 (CDT)
> Von: katahdinenergyworks at verizon.net
> An: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>, Winfried Rijssenbeek
> <w.rijssenbeek at rrenergy.nl>
> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] Biogas from Pasture and second gen and GTL
>
> Maine is covered with perhaps hundreds of thousands of acres
> of fallow 'hayfield', either cut for hay; or cut to keep it from
> returning into forest; or in a semi forest stage, i.e. brush.
>
> As a result Maine has has thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of large
> hay 'rolls' decomposing in fields, unsold. There are even more wrapped in
> plastic waiting to be sold.
>
> One reaction is a large biomass boiler that consumes an entire haybale
> over the course of a week...kinda burns like a cigar from one end to the
> other!
>
> As we all know the BTU content of Hay is very large.
>
> I've put together an integrated system for operating an integrated solid
> & liquid waste digester, that uses the spent effluent as a fertilizer on
> these hay fields; in essence creating a renewable resource.
>
> Plastic bailing solves the storage problem.
>
> We're lucky to have Navy base in the final stages of closing and the
> potential for creating this kind of trash to energy cycle using
> hay(grasses, biomass) in the loop.
>
> ..just tossing out the concept...
>
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>
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