[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10

Sun Jan 13 13:19:02 CST 2008

Mark,

The key word in your statement is the word "relatively abundant".  Helium 
varies in concentration from .1% in some areas to 1.8% (Keyes, KS) and one 
small gas field where I believe it was 7% (Four Corners area in the US). 
When the natural gas is burned without helium recovery, it is exhausted into 
the atmosphere where the helium concentration is about 5 parts per million. 
If you thought helium was uneconomical to recover at .1% concentration, try 
recovering it at 5 ppm from the atmosphere after the natural gas fields are 
depleted.  Helium is a critical natural resource.  Think of a world without 
the word "heli-arc".

I worked on the Helium recovery program in Texas where all the natural gas 
from a particular high helium concentration gas field (.25%) under Amarillo 
was liquefied (except for helium) and the helium was pumped back underground 
in a resource recovery program.  This was stopped in 1996.

Art Krenzel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Ludlow" <mark at ludlow.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10

Dear Brockmeyer,

 The issue is that He is relatively abundant in natural gas, where it can be
recovered, particularly efficiently as a sidestream of liquefaction (LNG),
or with a little more effort with membranes. Once it is released into the
atmosphere collecting it once again is much more energy intensive because of
its extremely-low boiling point and its scarcity in the lower atmosphere
(5ppm).

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Brockmeyer
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 9:53 AM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10

Richard,

Helium is a noble gas, noble gases are the elements in group 18, never
reacts and so do not  vanishes as pure element. I believe you thought on
Hydrogen ( H2). Your comments on natural H2 source are very interesting.
Thks.
Brockmeyer

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Haard" <richrd at nas.com>
To: <mark at ludlow.com>; "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10

| Truly interesting to learn of Art's role in developing the helium
| separation technology. My own interest on the topic of  helium is
| conservation of this resource - a looming problem in the future as
| were are wasting it by burning natural gas and not recovering and
| saving. Also, at one time I had ambition to develop natural hydrogen
| sources in Kansas oil fields into a commercial supply. This idea never
| though went past an interesting study topic.  The hydrogen source is
| reaction of water with iron rich hot rocks much deeper than the
| relatively shallow oil in Kansas.
|
| My understanding the teflon separation was developed and patented at
| Stanford U. I have no other information on this at the moment.
| On Jan 12, 2008, at 11:40 PM, Mark Ludlow wrote:
|
| > Art and Richard,
| >
| > Good observations both and more useful than searching through the
| > dim fog of  my past! But what pressure drop exists across the separation
boundary?
| >
| > And what of carbon nanotubes? Is there a natural affinity for H2 and if
so
| > how is it useful as a temporary storage system? Why don't I just
| > Google this, you ask? I prefer the luxury of your informed replies!
| >
| > Mark
| >
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
| > [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Art
| > Krenzel
| > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:21 PM
| > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
| > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10
| >
| > Mark,
| >
| > DuPont and I hold patents for the separation of helium from natural
| > gases
| > using permeation though the walls of hollow micro-fibers.  In four
| > stages of concentration, we concentrated helium from 0.25% to 99.995%
using
| > Dacron fibers.  The tests were done in the oil fields about 60 miles
north of
| > Amarillo in a pilot plant that had been constructed inside a 40 ft van
| > trailer.  We achieved our concentration goal at midnight on
| > Christmas Eve in 1965.   It was an easy date to remember.
| >
| > Art Krenzel
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Richard Haard" <richrd at nas.com>
| > To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
| > <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
| > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:11 PM
| > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10
| >
| >
| >> In extraction of helium from natural gas they use teflon membranes or
| >> filters to separate this element from the more massive methane
| >> molecules. I believe though there is a patent in this application.
| >> On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:40 PM, Mark Ludlow wrote:
| >>
| >>> Andy,
| >>>
| >>> Andrew is most often spot-on in his replies but your question got me
| >>> thinking. The reason that your hydrogen left your balloons was that
| >>> 1.) its
| >>> molecular radius is so small that it easily traversed the broader
| >>> molecular
| >>> matrix of your latex balloons and it headed toward a lower pressure
| >>> (lower H2 partial pressure) destination.
| >>
| >>
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| >
| >
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