[Gasification] electrical classification

Gady gady at ieway.com
Thu Jan 24 14:14:58 CST 2008


All,
         I have followed these discussion for a number of years, and one 
issue that I have not seen is the electrical classification of these 
systems.  I am assuming that they fall under non-hazadeous 
classifications?  If the systems would fall under hazardeous how are they 
classified.

Regards,

Gady

At 10:00 AM 1/24/08, you wrote:

>Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>         gasification at listserv.repp.org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 
>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         gasification-request at listserv.repp.org
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>         gasification-owner at listserv.repp.org
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Wheeling Power (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
>    2. Re: Wheeling Power (MMBTUPR at aol.com)
>    3. ETHANOL PRODUCTION IN BRAZIL; SAD REALITY (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
>    4. MATTER ABOUT CHARCOAL GASIFIER (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:40 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Wheeling Power
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>         <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <15791.4764.qm at web57013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Andy; US have 230 million of vehicles. Why electric production is not in 
>the same way. Our experienc was in Ober?, Misiones, Argentine;bulding an 
>charcoal gasifier fueling an Ford V8 motor 292 cubic inches displacement. 
>It was for an foundry in black out emergency situation. Reading about US 
>forestrys it have 1 million of landowners with less than 10 acres 
>forestry. It is possible to make an Forest Management Plan to use in 
>controlled and sustainable form  in electric generation. It seems mad but 
>one million 100 KVA generators are the same power of 160 nuke power 
>stations of 600 MVA.Only is necessary to visit junkyards to take V8 motors 
>and buy or produce electric generators 3.600  RPM two poles .Giving other 
>twice amout of thermal power for chemical and physical processes also 
>heating houses.If you want and obtain some politic propeller we send to 
>you more info.
>Regards, Benjamin
>
>andy schofield <scothebuilder at hotmail.com> escribi?:
>Dear forum readers,    This last monday, I attended a public meeting in 
>Traverse City where state Senator Jason Allen and state Representitive 
>David        Palsrock spoke of Michigan's plan to increase the percentage 
>of electric power generated by renewables. Both the senator and my 
>representitive discussed tax incentives and Michigan' net-metering program 
>for businesses and homes. However quite progressive, these incentives do 
>not put any  money in the hands of  folk who generate the renewable power, 
>rather the present laws only slightly defray confiscitory taxes and attrit 
>the cost of consumed-electricity.    Generation of renewable-power is 
>harder than it looks. Business owners know how to conduct their particular 
>business. None have the desire to get into the generation business. Laws 
>and agreements need to be pondered to allow busness owners to purchace 
>power directly from renewable sources.    Wheeling electricity from one 
>site to another using existing utilitiy-owned
>  circuts was discussed way back in the mid-eighties in many Power 
> Magazine articles. How far has thinking come since those days? Andrew 
> SchofieldGreat Lakes Fenewable Fuel systems
>_________________________________________________________________
>Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
>http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
>_______________________________________________
>Gasification mailing list
>Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Encuentros
>Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho m?s f?cil, prob? el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros.
>  Visit? http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:05:09 EST
>From: MMBTUPR at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Wheeling Power
>To: scothebuilder at hotmail.com, gasification at listserv.repp.org
>Message-ID: <c3c.2a010478.34c92225 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>                from         Lewis L Smith
>
>The sender is a semiretired energy economist and among other things, a former
>director of what is now Puerto Rico's Energy Affairs Administration.
>
>Actually wheeling has come quite far. It has been done for decades in Canada,
>to make available seasonal surpluses of hydro electricity to coal-burning
>areas. In the USA, about 50% of the electricity consumed is wheeled. That 
>is, it
>is generated outside the service area of the utility which delivers it to the
>consumer, regardless of who bills for it. This ratio is expected to rise to
>70% within the next decade. Wheeling may involve the purchase of power at the
>service-area boundary or the payment of a transmission fee, with the 
>generator
>billing the customer.
>
>The management of wheeling flows is a little tricky. Sometimes they get to
>their destination by routes which are different from those agreed upon by the
>engineers and lawyers. Or "stranded" capacity [ generation or transmission 
>] is
>created by a new wheeling pattern.
>
>For example, one summer in Ohio, it was unseasonably cold, while in Maryland
>it was unseasonably hot.   So somebody had the bright idea to use Ohio's
>excess capacity to send power along a line which follows the PA Turnpike 
>and then
>down into Baltimore. Unfortunately, for reasons only known to the 
>electrons, a
>sizable amount of this power went up to the Eire Canal, across NY, down the
>Hudson River and across the New Jersey, before it got to DL.   This was quite
>disconcerting to dispatchers located in the Albany area, as they had been
>counting on their excess transmission line capacity for some other 
>purpose, which I
>have forgotten. Needless to say, it was even more disconcerting because it 
>all
>happened very fast.
>
>For example, imagine a utility [ A ] with a rectangular service area, with
>the short sides at the north end and south end respectively and most of its
>generating capacity in the lower right-hand corner. A wheeling agreement is
>proposed for a utility [ B ] bordering the upper left-hand corner to supply
>customers in the upper right-hand corner of utility A's service area, 
>because a large
>customer has just folded in Utility B's service area. Considering both 
>utility
>service areas as a single economic unit and the incremental, out-of-pocket
>costs involved, such a deal may well make a lot of economic sense
>
>However, this would create excess [ "stranded" ] generation capacity in
>Utility A's lower right-hand corner and excess transmission capacity along 
>its
>right-hand side. Who pays for this now that it is no longer needed ?   One 
>may
>argue that "sunk" costs are "sunk" and that the related carrying charges 
>go on no
>matter what and should not affect the deal. But financially, we are dealing
>with two separate entities, and it may turn out that the impact of the 
>deal on
>Utility A's cash flow is negative !   For example, payment of bond interest
>and amortization on the investment in the idle capacity could exceed the
>transmission fee.
>
>Whatever the answer, this sort of issue stirs up great animosity, whenever it
>rears its head.
>
>Wheeling is important for renewable sources of energy for two reasons   >>>
>
>[1]     If renewable sources can wheel on the basis of a "transmission toll"
>paid to an existing utility, the former can cut their own deals with 
>customers
>who want "green" energy and avoid the bureaucratic hassle of negotiating with
>a shortsighted, selfish utility. They can also avoid being penalized by
>having to sell at the utility's avoid cost, which does not take 
>externalities into
>account [ the hidden costs of using energy obtained from petroleum fuels ] .
>
>[2]     Sometimes a renewable energy project can be brought on line much
>faster if it can negotiate directly with a customer rather than a utility.
>
>Needless to say, conventional utilities don't like the latter kind of
>wheeling.
>
>Cordially ###
>
>
>
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:43:25 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: [Gasification] ETHANOL PRODUCTION IN BRAZIL; SAD REALITY
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>         <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <446130.45961.qm at web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>The lamentable "progress" that attended to be born
>  Gilson Leite de Moura
>  Great plants of alcohol or any product bring the depredation of the 
> nature, therefore they are the "face" of the capitalism irrational that 
> does not respect biodiversity and the environment. If we live in a 
> democracy, as say, because the small one cannot, to produce the alcohol 
> that goes to move its car or the energy that goes to move the farm, in 
> its city, its region with all freedom and without punishment for it, for 
> this so positive and constructive attitude? Because not to protect the 
> worker if already we know for anticipation the decurrent social disasters 
> of this lack of protection? If it we leave the grace of the capitalist, 
> this disloyal competitor, for who the norms for easy loans e run flabby 
> (not payable), it will lose with certainty and the consequences already 
> for are excessively known. We want and we like to imagine the small one 
> participating actively of the productive process because they produce 
> well, do not depredate the nature and more than all they
>  deserve this possibility. Argument fort?ssimo also is that we need to 
> live as they propagate the heralds of the DEMOCRACY, in all the 
> parliaments of the world; democracy is the government of the majority. It 
> is marked, therefore. One perguntinha boat, but that it does not want to 
> be silent; It will be that for the privileged ones, this definition of 
> democracy has not been a "inconvenient truth"? Another question in them 
> leads the implantation of the small plants spreading them in the 
> territory of this country: It will be that it is not little intelligent 
> to produce alcohol in S?o Paulo and to order for the Cear?, for example? 
> It is lack of common-sense to spend alcohol to carry alcohol and 
> therefore I defend the production, with freedom, the distribution and the 
> negotiation for cooperatives making with that the consumption, in the 
> measure of the possible one, happens in the neighborhoods of the place of 
> the production. Because to complicate the things, when if it deals
>  with the energy that moves the machines if to the agriculturist most 
> humble, it has mil?nios, already it was trusted and successfully until 
> today, to plant and to produce our food? More strategical and of more 
> responsibility that the alcohol has not been to produce the flour and the 
> beans that the small agriculturist ha very produces and is part of the 
> basic energy that sets in motion the noble machine of the human body? I 
> do not want nor I know to argue "economy", and therefore I prefer to 
> speak in "saving" the planet of our grandsons and valuing the force of 
> the guided work. I feel that I do not have to raise an altar to the 
> capital, but the NATURE and to creative intelligence would dare me raises 
> it it. In my reasoning, a dollar ballot valley for mere convention, but 
> the human work and the food and power plants in contrast of the dollar, 
> are not valid because "one day" if it stipulated, but because they 
> support in real and undisputed way, the life in the Land. Pro?bem
>  that the small one produces energy, through the creation of obstacles 
> and laws marotas, when in contrast, they had to stimulate them it this. 
> To the times in it gives the impression to them that them pillars that 
> support the capitalism are ruindo and not to fall down of a time, they 
> create force shirts to immobilize the creative worker and those that with 
> intelligence, fight against the trends that has only taken the 
> destruction of the classrooms less attended and of the environment where 
> we live. All we know that the environment and the space that we occupy 
> are not property only of the present generation exactly that they have 
> conquered the resources that in delude them and in it makes them to think 
> immortal and super-men and the reason is the obvio; we are not perpetual; 
> we die. In the past the industrials of the sugar cane had mounted its 
> great plant with resources of the people and have notice that this money, 
> in many cases, was not returned. With the same resource we
>  would have implanted thousand of distilleries in the entire country 
> where the well attended agriculturist technical, would have contributed 
> with the nature, the division more joust of the wealth and with 
> biodiversity. Some ask because they want, but know "of color" the reply 
> of the reason for which if our country lives so dangerously in the great 
> centers of this nowadays. We attend in a next past and the gift, without 
> nothing to make to prevent, the great agricultural exodus and can say 
> that the cities had not grown, but had swelled and if they had 
> disorderedly reproduced in few decades in human accumulations type slum 
> quarters. Expulsos of the paradise that they could have constructed in 
> the interior of Brazil, goes the desvalidos ones, without no knowledge, 
> to inhabit the needy peripheries of the great cities, being corrupted its 
> customs and its family. Thinking well, as the governments and the 
> politicians pparently so understood in economy had been dull politics who had
>  lead this entire nation for underneath of this great trap that now they 
> only perceive that they do not obtain to disarm with so inadequate 
> regimen to the majority of the population. They complain very because the 
> "outlaws" gestados by they themselves, now want a slice of the cake. The 
> regimen in which we live is egoistic and alone it learned to concentrate 
> the wealth that the severity belong to all. In a country of continental 
> dimensions and with as much inaquality, if it makes necessary to invest 
> in the small one that it desires to produce. With the agricultural 
> vocation that we have we need to give to assistance technique and 
> financier who to the small one will make with certainty, better social 
> effect that to the great usineiro that did not learn to return what he 
> was never its nor to distribute what (pparently) belongs to it. Another 
> against-sense that I see is a country that forms as much technician, for 
> not having one politics of assistance technique, does not use
>  its formed staff whom in the majority of the times the resources of the 
> Brazilian nation had cost. We attend the supervaluation of the careers 
> over all medical, even because the country is hungry, dirty and sick, but 
> sick because the old agriculturists, its children and grandsons live 
> today in the wrong place accumulated in the slum quarters without sewers, 
> health and hope. A true cauldron of revolt for who all day is attending 
> the pretty and inaccessible world of the television. I dare to say that 
> without the technician attending small e DEMOCRATISANDO the progress, we 
> will have each time more doctors with its curativa medicine that does not 
> go to cure and the slum quarters exporting illness and unreliability even 
> for who if it deludes with the pparently conquered power, and finds that 
> also it conquered security. Heath Saint 23/01/2008
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Tarjeta de cr?dito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.Solicit? tu nueva Tarjeta 
>de cr?dito. De tu PC directo a tu casa.
>  Visit? www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:07:22 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: [Gasification] MATTER ABOUT CHARCOAL GASIFIER
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>         <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <718985.7246.qm at web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/view/d555?b=1
>
>  Matter published in La Prensa , Buenos  Aires newspaper june 21 1994
>
>  Regards; Benjamin
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Tarjeta de cr?dito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.Solicit? tu nueva Tarjeta 
>de cr?dito. De tu PC directo a tu casa.
>  Visit? www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gasification mailing list
>Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
>
>End of Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 21
>********************************************
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/08 
>11:04 AM
>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/08 
>11:04 AM


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1241 - Release Date: 1/24/08 9:58 AM





More information about the Gasification mailing list