[Gasification] electrical classification
Gady
gady at ieway.com
Thu Jan 24 14:14:58 CST 2008
All,
I have followed these discussion for a number of years, and one
issue that I have not seen is the electrical classification of these
systems. I am assuming that they fall under non-hazadeous
classifications? If the systems would fall under hazardeous how are they
classified.
Regards,
Gady
At 10:00 AM 1/24/08, you wrote:
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wheeling Power (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
> 2. Re: Wheeling Power (MMBTUPR at aol.com)
> 3. ETHANOL PRODUCTION IN BRAZIL; SAD REALITY (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
> 4. MATTER ABOUT CHARCOAL GASIFIER (Benjamin Domingo Bof)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:40 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Wheeling Power
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <15791.4764.qm at web57013.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Andy; US have 230 million of vehicles. Why electric production is not in
>the same way. Our experienc was in Ober?, Misiones, Argentine;bulding an
>charcoal gasifier fueling an Ford V8 motor 292 cubic inches displacement.
>It was for an foundry in black out emergency situation. Reading about US
>forestrys it have 1 million of landowners with less than 10 acres
>forestry. It is possible to make an Forest Management Plan to use in
>controlled and sustainable form in electric generation. It seems mad but
>one million 100 KVA generators are the same power of 160 nuke power
>stations of 600 MVA.Only is necessary to visit junkyards to take V8 motors
>and buy or produce electric generators 3.600 RPM two poles .Giving other
>twice amout of thermal power for chemical and physical processes also
>heating houses.If you want and obtain some politic propeller we send to
>you more info.
>Regards, Benjamin
>
>andy schofield <scothebuilder at hotmail.com> escribi?:
>Dear forum readers, This last monday, I attended a public meeting in
>Traverse City where state Senator Jason Allen and state Representitive
>David Palsrock spoke of Michigan's plan to increase the percentage
>of electric power generated by renewables. Both the senator and my
>representitive discussed tax incentives and Michigan' net-metering program
>for businesses and homes. However quite progressive, these incentives do
>not put any money in the hands of folk who generate the renewable power,
>rather the present laws only slightly defray confiscitory taxes and attrit
>the cost of consumed-electricity. Generation of renewable-power is
>harder than it looks. Business owners know how to conduct their particular
>business. None have the desire to get into the generation business. Laws
>and agreements need to be pondered to allow busness owners to purchace
>power directly from renewable sources. Wheeling electricity from one
>site to another using existing utilitiy-owned
> circuts was discussed way back in the mid-eighties in many Power
> Magazine articles. How far has thinking come since those days? Andrew
> SchofieldGreat Lakes Fenewable Fuel systems
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:05:09 EST
>From: MMBTUPR at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Wheeling Power
>To: scothebuilder at hotmail.com, gasification at listserv.repp.org
>Message-ID: <c3c.2a010478.34c92225 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> from Lewis L Smith
>
>The sender is a semiretired energy economist and among other things, a former
>director of what is now Puerto Rico's Energy Affairs Administration.
>
>Actually wheeling has come quite far. It has been done for decades in Canada,
>to make available seasonal surpluses of hydro electricity to coal-burning
>areas. In the USA, about 50% of the electricity consumed is wheeled. That
>is, it
>is generated outside the service area of the utility which delivers it to the
>consumer, regardless of who bills for it. This ratio is expected to rise to
>70% within the next decade. Wheeling may involve the purchase of power at the
>service-area boundary or the payment of a transmission fee, with the
>generator
>billing the customer.
>
>The management of wheeling flows is a little tricky. Sometimes they get to
>their destination by routes which are different from those agreed upon by the
>engineers and lawyers. Or "stranded" capacity [ generation or transmission
>] is
>created by a new wheeling pattern.
>
>For example, one summer in Ohio, it was unseasonably cold, while in Maryland
>it was unseasonably hot. So somebody had the bright idea to use Ohio's
>excess capacity to send power along a line which follows the PA Turnpike
>and then
>down into Baltimore. Unfortunately, for reasons only known to the
>electrons, a
>sizable amount of this power went up to the Eire Canal, across NY, down the
>Hudson River and across the New Jersey, before it got to DL. This was quite
>disconcerting to dispatchers located in the Albany area, as they had been
>counting on their excess transmission line capacity for some other
>purpose, which I
>have forgotten. Needless to say, it was even more disconcerting because it
>all
>happened very fast.
>
>For example, imagine a utility [ A ] with a rectangular service area, with
>the short sides at the north end and south end respectively and most of its
>generating capacity in the lower right-hand corner. A wheeling agreement is
>proposed for a utility [ B ] bordering the upper left-hand corner to supply
>customers in the upper right-hand corner of utility A's service area,
>because a large
>customer has just folded in Utility B's service area. Considering both
>utility
>service areas as a single economic unit and the incremental, out-of-pocket
>costs involved, such a deal may well make a lot of economic sense
>
>However, this would create excess [ "stranded" ] generation capacity in
>Utility A's lower right-hand corner and excess transmission capacity along
>its
>right-hand side. Who pays for this now that it is no longer needed ? One
>may
>argue that "sunk" costs are "sunk" and that the related carrying charges
>go on no
>matter what and should not affect the deal. But financially, we are dealing
>with two separate entities, and it may turn out that the impact of the
>deal on
>Utility A's cash flow is negative ! For example, payment of bond interest
>and amortization on the investment in the idle capacity could exceed the
>transmission fee.
>
>Whatever the answer, this sort of issue stirs up great animosity, whenever it
>rears its head.
>
>Wheeling is important for renewable sources of energy for two reasons >>>
>
>[1] If renewable sources can wheel on the basis of a "transmission toll"
>paid to an existing utility, the former can cut their own deals with
>customers
>who want "green" energy and avoid the bureaucratic hassle of negotiating with
>a shortsighted, selfish utility. They can also avoid being penalized by
>having to sell at the utility's avoid cost, which does not take
>externalities into
>account [ the hidden costs of using energy obtained from petroleum fuels ] .
>
>[2] Sometimes a renewable energy project can be brought on line much
>faster if it can negotiate directly with a customer rather than a utility.
>
>Needless to say, conventional utilities don't like the latter kind of
>wheeling.
>
>Cordially ###
>
>
>
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:43:25 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: [Gasification] ETHANOL PRODUCTION IN BRAZIL; SAD REALITY
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <446130.45961.qm at web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>The lamentable "progress" that attended to be born
> Gilson Leite de Moura
> Great plants of alcohol or any product bring the depredation of the
> nature, therefore they are the "face" of the capitalism irrational that
> does not respect biodiversity and the environment. If we live in a
> democracy, as say, because the small one cannot, to produce the alcohol
> that goes to move its car or the energy that goes to move the farm, in
> its city, its region with all freedom and without punishment for it, for
> this so positive and constructive attitude? Because not to protect the
> worker if already we know for anticipation the decurrent social disasters
> of this lack of protection? If it we leave the grace of the capitalist,
> this disloyal competitor, for who the norms for easy loans e run flabby
> (not payable), it will lose with certainty and the consequences already
> for are excessively known. We want and we like to imagine the small one
> participating actively of the productive process because they produce
> well, do not depredate the nature and more than all they
> deserve this possibility. Argument fort?ssimo also is that we need to
> live as they propagate the heralds of the DEMOCRACY, in all the
> parliaments of the world; democracy is the government of the majority. It
> is marked, therefore. One perguntinha boat, but that it does not want to
> be silent; It will be that for the privileged ones, this definition of
> democracy has not been a "inconvenient truth"? Another question in them
> leads the implantation of the small plants spreading them in the
> territory of this country: It will be that it is not little intelligent
> to produce alcohol in S?o Paulo and to order for the Cear?, for example?
> It is lack of common-sense to spend alcohol to carry alcohol and
> therefore I defend the production, with freedom, the distribution and the
> negotiation for cooperatives making with that the consumption, in the
> measure of the possible one, happens in the neighborhoods of the place of
> the production. Because to complicate the things, when if it deals
> with the energy that moves the machines if to the agriculturist most
> humble, it has mil?nios, already it was trusted and successfully until
> today, to plant and to produce our food? More strategical and of more
> responsibility that the alcohol has not been to produce the flour and the
> beans that the small agriculturist ha very produces and is part of the
> basic energy that sets in motion the noble machine of the human body? I
> do not want nor I know to argue "economy", and therefore I prefer to
> speak in "saving" the planet of our grandsons and valuing the force of
> the guided work. I feel that I do not have to raise an altar to the
> capital, but the NATURE and to creative intelligence would dare me raises
> it it. In my reasoning, a dollar ballot valley for mere convention, but
> the human work and the food and power plants in contrast of the dollar,
> are not valid because "one day" if it stipulated, but because they
> support in real and undisputed way, the life in the Land. Pro?bem
> that the small one produces energy, through the creation of obstacles
> and laws marotas, when in contrast, they had to stimulate them it this.
> To the times in it gives the impression to them that them pillars that
> support the capitalism are ruindo and not to fall down of a time, they
> create force shirts to immobilize the creative worker and those that with
> intelligence, fight against the trends that has only taken the
> destruction of the classrooms less attended and of the environment where
> we live. All we know that the environment and the space that we occupy
> are not property only of the present generation exactly that they have
> conquered the resources that in delude them and in it makes them to think
> immortal and super-men and the reason is the obvio; we are not perpetual;
> we die. In the past the industrials of the sugar cane had mounted its
> great plant with resources of the people and have notice that this money,
> in many cases, was not returned. With the same resource we
> would have implanted thousand of distilleries in the entire country
> where the well attended agriculturist technical, would have contributed
> with the nature, the division more joust of the wealth and with
> biodiversity. Some ask because they want, but know "of color" the reply
> of the reason for which if our country lives so dangerously in the great
> centers of this nowadays. We attend in a next past and the gift, without
> nothing to make to prevent, the great agricultural exodus and can say
> that the cities had not grown, but had swelled and if they had
> disorderedly reproduced in few decades in human accumulations type slum
> quarters. Expulsos of the paradise that they could have constructed in
> the interior of Brazil, goes the desvalidos ones, without no knowledge,
> to inhabit the needy peripheries of the great cities, being corrupted its
> customs and its family. Thinking well, as the governments and the
> politicians pparently so understood in economy had been dull politics who had
> lead this entire nation for underneath of this great trap that now they
> only perceive that they do not obtain to disarm with so inadequate
> regimen to the majority of the population. They complain very because the
> "outlaws" gestados by they themselves, now want a slice of the cake. The
> regimen in which we live is egoistic and alone it learned to concentrate
> the wealth that the severity belong to all. In a country of continental
> dimensions and with as much inaquality, if it makes necessary to invest
> in the small one that it desires to produce. With the agricultural
> vocation that we have we need to give to assistance technique and
> financier who to the small one will make with certainty, better social
> effect that to the great usineiro that did not learn to return what he
> was never its nor to distribute what (pparently) belongs to it. Another
> against-sense that I see is a country that forms as much technician, for
> not having one politics of assistance technique, does not use
> its formed staff whom in the majority of the times the resources of the
> Brazilian nation had cost. We attend the supervaluation of the careers
> over all medical, even because the country is hungry, dirty and sick, but
> sick because the old agriculturists, its children and grandsons live
> today in the wrong place accumulated in the slum quarters without sewers,
> health and hope. A true cauldron of revolt for who all day is attending
> the pretty and inaccessible world of the television. I dare to say that
> without the technician attending small e DEMOCRATISANDO the progress, we
> will have each time more doctors with its curativa medicine that does not
> go to cure and the slum quarters exporting illness and unreliability even
> for who if it deludes with the pparently conquered power, and finds that
> also it conquered security. Heath Saint 23/01/2008
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:07:22 -0300 (ART)
>From: Benjamin Domingo Bof <benjaminbof at yahoo.com.ar>
>Subject: [Gasification] MATTER ABOUT CHARCOAL GASIFIER
>To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
>Message-ID: <718985.7246.qm at web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/view/d555?b=1
>
> Matter published in La Prensa , Buenos Aires newspaper june 21 1994
>
> Regards; Benjamin
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>Tarjeta de cr?dito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.Solicit? tu nueva Tarjeta
>de cr?dito. De tu PC directo a tu casa.
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>------------------------------
>
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>End of Gasification Digest, Vol 19, Issue 21
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