[Gasification] Corrupt government, conspiracy, new world order, no future.

[Greg and April]

I had this very type of conversation on another list about a year ago, where 
a pro AGW, member refused to believe that many of us were skeptics, because 
the data had not been proven to our satisfaction, yet were sick and tired of 
all the gloom and doom talk.

One guy was a scientist that believed the world revolved around AGW, and 
repeatedly called us denialist, despite the fact that we repeatedly showed 
him why we were skeptical.    Many time we would ask for proof, and he would 
tell us to read some obscure paper that most of the time was only available 
to the scientific community or for a $75 membership fee - but once in a 
while we would actually find it on line, and then pick it apart and show him 
how the "Proof" was no such thing, because they person that wrote it, tried 
to use unscientific principles to support what had to be his predetermined 
theory.

To many of us it looks like people are manipulating the numbers for any 
number of reasons - heck we have already seen it often enough, there is no 
reason to believe that it's being done again.    In some cases we would run 
across evidence that supported the fact that the so called supporting 
evidence ( in favor of AGW ), was manipulated ( intentionally or 
unintentionally ) thus more likely to give a increasing warming trend.

Does AWG exist?    I personally doubt it.
Does natural GW exist?    I think that it's quite likely.
Can anything we do counter act natural GW?    I very much doubt it, and 
throwing money at it would be a complete waste of time ( and money ).


Tell me that we should do something because it's the right thing to do, and 
I'll might agree with you.


Tell me the sky is falling, and try to force me to put it back where you 
think it belongs, and I'll tell you to go back to smoking your joy weed ( 
and the colored dreams that come with it ), and leave me alone because I 
have enough problems of my own to take care of.


The more you try and force us, the more the rest of us will fight back - 
possibly to the downfall of both.

Greg H.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Stuart" <bobstuart at sasktel.net>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
<gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:15
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Corrupt government, conspiracy, new world order, 
no future.


>
> I think that people who insist that any uncomfortable predictions are
> manipulative lies are just revealing their own relationship to
> truth.  Perhaps we should just offer bets and get paid for our
> efforts to separate wheat from chaff.  Anyway, I'd like to share
> another perspective on the problem, featuring easy-to-see evidence.
>
> At 92 pages long, this document from Friends of the Earth is not a
> quick read, but it sure got my attention.  However, a synopsis may be
> in order:
>
> Last fall, there was so much open water in the Arctic ocean that the
> predictions about global warming are clearly too optimistic.  We now
> have proof that .8 degrees C is enough to progressively melt the
> polar ice, which leaves a relatively warm, solar-absorbing ocean
> beside the Greenland ice cap, which has also started to melt
> quickly.  That melting would raise sea levels by many meters, and
> probably doom the West Antarctic ice sheet, which rests on the sea
> bottom.  And, even if we stopped all burning tomorrow,  another .6
> degree of warming is already in the system.   Coastal cities would
> need massive dikes and, too often, desalinization of their water supply.
>
> Clearly, there is already too much carbon dioxide in the air, and
> some will have to be removed as soon as possible to avoid runaway
> effects from melting permafrost releasing carbon and other
> unrecoverable disasters.  There has been talk of aiming to wind up
> with the earth 2 degrees warmer, or maybe 3, but both those figures
> lead to major disasters and extinctions, and could flip to even
> warmer conditions.  We are already taking chances with the planet far
> more reckless than those we accept on a public road.  Loosing it is
> Not An Option.
>
> The good news is  that by putting the economy on an emergency basis,
> as was done for WW II, we still have time to create a modern,
> sustainable technology while drawing carbon out of the air.  One low-
> tech method is to produce a stable soil enhancement - terra preta.
> Business as usual is headed, lemming-like, for a perfect crash.
> However, determined regulation guided by hard science can easily
> transform industries without loss of employment or even profit.
> Waste, however, will have to become prohibitively expensive, before
> the next generation winds up with most of the bill.  Companies are
> only a product of the laws that form them, so we must change the
> rules, and with all haste.
>
> http://www.carbonequity.info/climatecodered/index.html
>
>
> Best,
> Bob Stuart