[Gasification] indirect gasification schemes (was: Alternativeenergy in the nursery)

jim mason jimmason at whatiamupto.com
Sat May 3 01:33:44 CDT 2008 

ron, solids left after anerobic digestion, as well as olive pressings will
not run in typical fixed bed downdraft gasifiers.  fixed bed downdrafts need
chunk fuel.  granular fuels will pack up.  usually some sort of fluidized
bed is used for such fuels, often with some additional granulation
preprocessing.  i have a prototype fluidized bed that will work on these
fuels in my shop.  but it is far from ready for prime time so i cannot help
you.

the other route you can go is to pelletize or briquette your wastes.  then
fixed beds have a better chance with it.  beware the pellets decomposing in
the steam if the steam is not well handled.  or use an an open top design
which will not build a steam environment in the hopper.

pelletizers come in all sizes and price points.  but your waste also is wet,
so you likely have a drying challenge too.  wet mushy waste is the hardest
place to start for gasification.  not impossible.  but not the ideal
feedstock.

jim




On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Ron Lahat <ron.lahat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jim,
>
> *Olive waste*
>
> 1. I'm in contact with an olive oil producer that is eager to use the
> waste
> for generating electricity
> 2. The resource is 1500-2000 Ton per year(dry)
> 3. I have estimated that this resource can feed a small gasification
> system
> that will generate 100-300 Kw*h* 360 days
> 4. To be practical I'm looking for a system that is working on olive waste
> !
> With NO luck
> 5. If the system is modular we can start with w 100Kwh system and grow.
> 6. I have looked into the BioMax system but they do not have a project
> that
> is using Olive waste
>
>
> *Manure*
>
> 1. Following the anaerobic digestion of manure for extracting the CH4 to
> be
> used for generating electricity; the solids that are left can be used to
> some extent as compost
> I'm looking for a gasification system that will use this resource
>
> I heard that in Germany there is a system but have no details if it is
> commercial
>
> Do you have the experience with this resource!
>
> Ron Lahat
> BTO Engineering Ltd.
>
>
> My banner is:
>
> *"Strive for Renewable Energy Solutions to reduce CO2 emissions"*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Jason Aramburu <jaramburu at ecovolve.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ron,
> >
> > Please tell me more about what you are looking for. My company, Ecovolve
> > Energy is developing a small scale biopower system with olive and grape
> pits
> > as well as manure as our primary feedstocks. Would be happy to discuss
> > further if you're interested.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jason Aramburu
> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> >
> > --
> > Jason Aramburu
> > Ecovolve Energy
> > http://www.ecovolve.com
> > 917.338.0632
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Ron Lahat" <ron.lahat at gmail.com>
> >
> > Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 02:04:34
> > To:"Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"<
> > gasification at listserv.repp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] indirect gasification schemes (was:
> > Alternative
> >        energy in the nursery)
> >
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I'm looking for specific gasification systems that are commercial and
> can
> > use the following resource:
> >
> > 1. Olive waste - left after extracting olive oil in cold process
> > 2. Waste left from manure - following anerobic process that extracts the
> > Biogas
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:39 AM, jim mason <jimmason at whatiamupto.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > one other indirect gasification effort i found recently is the MTCI
> > which
> > > uses a pulse combustor internally within the steam blast fluidized
> bed.
> > > instead of transfering the heat in via sand cross recycle, the system
> > uses
> > > the increased heat transfer potential of pulse combustor to do the
> > > transfer
> > > directly across the combustor wall material, placed inside the
> fluidized
> > > bed.  the inability to get the heat transfer "dense enough" to happen
> > > within
> > > the flb is part of what motivated the sand X transfer system like in
> the
> > > link above.  by externalizing the combustor and sand heating, you can
> > use
> > > as
> > > much space as you want.  my undestanding is that a pulse combustor has
> > > around 4x the heat transfer rate across its walls as a constant
> > combustion
> > > regime.  the resonance into the flb likely increases reaction rates
> > inside
> > > the flb too.  sounds great, except for the gigantic noise of a pulse
> > > combustor (think pulse jet).
> > >
> > > the pulse combustor indirect gasification system is here:
> > > http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=7162075
> .
> > >  the
> > > patents come up too if you search "pulse combustion indirect
> > > gasification".
> > >
> > > there is also an interesting summary of contemporary gasification
> > reactors
> > > from a group at UCSD.  i had not seen this.  it is a nice big picture:
> > > http://maecourses.ucsd.edu/mae198/content/gasifier.shtml
> > >
> > > maybe the stovers should be considering the potentials of ear
> deafening
> > > pulse jets for increased heat transfer into the cassava pot . . . ;-)
> > >
> > > jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:10 AM, jim mason <jimmason at whatiamupto.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.silvagas.com/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > i thought the mc neil vermont biomass plant was continuing to run on
> > > this
> > > > indirect gasification batelle reactor.  i now see it was only a demo
> > and
> > > the
> > > > mc neil plant really runs currently as a straight combustor.  is
> this
> > > > correct?
> > > >
> > > > note that the gas out of this process is tarry and the usual
> > downstream
> > > > catalyst scenarios were necessary for clean up to turbine adequate.
> > >  most of
> > > > the time they seem to just have been using the tarry gas to run the
> > > steam
> > > > boilers on the regular combustor plant.  the taylor biomass plant
> that
> > > mark
> > > > posted about a couple weeks ago adds a second steam reforming step
> > after
> > > the
> > > > first to reduce the tars. http://www.taylorbiomassenergy.com/
> > > >
> > > > can anyone here summarize the effectiveness and longevity of hte
> > > catalysts
> > > > the mc neil reactor used?  the report says they "worked", but such
> is
> > a
> > > > fungible term.  did they have solution that was acceptable for
> ongoing
> > > > operation, or still a "lab adequate" solution?  why has the take up
> > been
> > > so
> > > > modest?
> > > >
> > > > any other assessments of this process known by those familiar with
> it
> > > > would be very interesting.
> > > >
> > > > j
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >WHO KNOWS  FERCO Enterprises LLC, Norcross WEB PAGE ..
> > > > > >OR ANY CONTACT DETAILS ..??
> > > > >
> > > > > >H.SOZEN
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Gasification mailing list
> > > > > Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> > > > >
> > >
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org
> > > > > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> > > > > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > jim mason
> > > > website: www.whatiamupto.com
> > > > current project: gasifier experimenters kit (the GEK):
> > > > www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification/gek
> > > > announce list:
> > http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > jim mason
> > > website: www.whatiamupto.com
> > > current project: gasifier experimenters kit (the GEK):
> > > www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification/gek
> > > announce list:
> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
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> > >
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> > > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org
> > > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> > >
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-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim mason
website: www.whatiamupto.com
current project: gasifier experimenters kit (the GEK):
www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification/gek
announce list: http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com

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