[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Re: FW: Cheap Solar Cells are Here

Thu Aug 24 07:10:35 CDT 2006

Guardian has a whole series of generators they call "QuietSource".  So called because the cabinets are insulated and their noise level is around 50db or less.  They operate on natural gas or propane and they start around 20kW.   Always oversize any generator that will be used to charge a UPS.  We have encountered two computer operations that have had problems trying to charge commercial UPS systems or multiple UPS systems with a small generator 7-15kW.   Won't work.  UPS systems pull a tremendous amount of current when they start charging their battery bank and not all UPS systems will synchronize to a generator's sinewave power.
This surge charge from a UPS will not be shown in the electrical specifications of that device.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jefro <jefro at jefro.net>
>Sent: Aug 23, 2006 6:39 PM
>To: Lawrence Lile <LLile at projsolco.com>
>Cc: Greenbuilder list <greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Re: FW: Cheap Solar Cells are Here
>
>I think an intertie system is far and away your best option.  I'm 
>guessing the panels won't be producing much in ice storms.  :)  But 
>then, you could also just leave the freezer off during such times, if it 
>is located in the outdoor airspace.
>
>Re noisy generators---I remember reading about a diesel generator 
>recently that was built for quiet operation, with a muffler and such 
>like a car.  I'll try to dig up the link.
>
>I'm coming to this as a full-time telecommuter in the computer industry, 
>rather than a builder. 
>
>If you use a laptop rather than a desktop system, it would be possible 
>to set up a UPS that would be able to recharge the laptop periodically 
>over the course of a few days.  If you have to drive anywhere during 
>that time, an even better option would be a car recharger.  This 
>obviously won't work for desktop systems. 
>
>There are a few things you can do to radically extend the time you get 
>on a UPS with a desktop system.  One is to use an LCD screen (avg. 40 
>watts) instead of a tank CRT (avg. 150 watts).  Another is to turn any 
>laser printers OFF during the outage, as they eat over 1000 watts on 
>startup, as compared to under 50 watts for an inkjet.  Laser printers 
>shouldn't be plugged into UPS systems in any case. 
>
>If there is interest, I can outline specs on low-power computer 
>systems.  I have designed many such systems.  They also have the 
>advantage of being much quieter in general than the average Dell desktop.
>
>Amen on the payback period! 
>
>Lawrence Lile wrote:
>>  
>>
>>
>> Not really talking about a real Uninterruptible Power Supply(UPS).  Just
>> figuring that a local solar panel on my roof and an inverter in my
>> garage would help ride through the periodic power outages due to ice
>> storms or high winds in my area.  If I've got 1-2 days storage that
>> ought to do the trick.  Just unplugging my most critical loads from the
>> power company would save money and Carbon, and provide me with a
>> reliability boost.  
>>
>> I'm not expecting this stuff to be cheap, or have a reasonable payback
>> period.  What is the payback period on leather car seats or an extra
>> minivan?  For less than the price of a spare car I could cover half my
>> roof with solar collectors.  
>>
>> I'm not too keen on generators, even biodiesel ones, because of the
>> noise.  Propane refrigeration is an option, although it doesn't help
>> with the zero carbon goal.  What I'd really like to do is just go off
>> the grid altogether, or sell juice back to those robbers.  
>>
>> --Lawrence
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jefro [mailto:jefro at jefro.net] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:37 PM
>> To: Lawrence Lile
>> Cc: geoedb at idiom.com; Greenbuilder list
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Re: FW: Cheap Solar Cells
>> are Here
>>
>> We are in line behind Lawrence, although we have a year to think about
>> it first.  We are planning a grid intertie with a generator as backup (I
>> work from home full-time).
>>
>> If you are talking about an actual battery-based uninterruptible power
>> supply (UPS), I would suggest researching systems before committing.  A
>> good UPS that can run your computer for 1/2 hour will cost in the
>> neighborhood of $80.  These are built to give you time to shut down your
>> computer safely and leave it shut down until the power flow starts back
>> up.  They are *not* a viable solution for backup power.  You definitely
>> want one, but not for backup power, whether you feed it with solar
>> panels or grid power.
>>
>> Also... a UPS (or battery bank) capable of powering a freezer for any
>> length of time will cost many thousands of bucks.  If you are off-grid
>> you would be much better served by buying a propane freezer, or a diesel
>> generator running biodiesel.
>>
>> Lawrence---An intertie is by far the best system to add panels
>> piecemeal.  If you are "growing into" a grid intertie, what are you
>> doing for power in the meantime? 
>>
>> One more note for Californians and anyone else planning a system in a
>> state that offers rebates---you usually only get the rebate on the first
>> set of panels, which makes it economically much more valuable to save up
>> and buy a bunch of panels at once.
>>
>> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>>   
>>> George,
>>>
>>> When you decide on a brand of solar panel, let us know.  I am right in
>>>     
>>
>>   
>>> line behind you. Don't know much about brands, efficiencies, life
>>> expectancy and so on.   I'm thinking about adding panels one by one as
>>>     
>> I
>>   
>>> can pay cash for them, until I have a substantial system.  
>>>
>>> Goal 1 might be an uninterruptible power supply for computers, 
>>> freezer, and a couple of lighting circuits.  Goal 2 would be to grow 
>>> into a grid-tie system probably.
>>>
>>> --Lawrence
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>>>     
>>
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>>   
>
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