[Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Re: [BULK] HCFC & HFC ozone & global warming

[Lawrence Lile]

 Have people been paying attention to California's move to cap global
warming emissions? What do we make of it, is it a gesture or does it
have real teeth.  I take back what I said about Der Gubernator, maybe he
actually gets it.  "Global Varming?  Varm THIS!" sez Arnold.   

--Lawrence Lile  




-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of George J.
Nesbitt
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:56 PM
To: Greenbuilder list
Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: [BULK] HCFC & HFC ozone &
global warming
Importance: Low

I would say they are a significant problem, but carbon dioxide is
probably bigger. If the CFC's are 2 to 3 billion pounds and Kyoto is
calling for 1 billion pound reduction, which is a small decrease or the
status quo, then it is the bigger problem, but CFC's aren't in
significant. There is twice the carbon dioxide in the methane in the
oceans than in all the remaining coal and oil, so it is potentially an
even bigger problem.
    But everything is important.
If the oceans rise 20 feet as some predict, I will have beach front
property in Oakland CA. Gore even showed a map that included my house.
    People will still be on earth (hopefully) even if some of the worse
happens, but life will be altered and harder. Hundreds of millions
around the world will be flooded out of there homes.
    Its never to late to make changes, there impact may be reduced.
I use far less energy than I am "supposed" too according to various
measures, yet I am still wasting plenty, and I have everything I need,
I'm not sacrificing much at this point. I would like to go zero energy,
put I don't have the money in the short term, put will struggle to do
what I can as I can.


Lawrence Lile wrote:

> 
>
>
>  
>
>>While there are less of these gases than carbon dioxide, they are 10
>>    
>>
>to 11 thousand times worse. 
>
>Aha! So they are a major problem compared to CO2. I had no idea. I 
>stand corrected.
>
>  
>
>>The Kyoto Protocol is calling for only 1 billion pounds reduction in
>>    
>>
>carbon dioxide. That goal has been wiped out by using HCFC's and HFC's 
>and we would be lucky to save 1 billion pounds of the 2 to 3 by 
>switching to better alternative at this point.
>
>Not the only problem with the Kyoto protocol, which was basically 
>watered down so bad as to only preserve the status quo.  I would have 
>liked to see them ratify it, then force through BIGGER restrictions.
>
>  
>
>>There was another article in todays paper about methane. If the oceans
>>    
>>
>heat up too much more methane will be released (worse greenhouse than 
>carbon dioxide), and there is more methane in the oceans (12 trillion
>pounds) than carbon dioxide in all of the fossil fuels left on 
>earth.Scary thought eh?
>
>Kinda knocks the air out of carbon sequestration in the oceans, doesn't

>it?
>
>We are facing a huge battle.  Many of the natural systems, if stressed 
>beyond a certain limit, go through a phase shift and change 
>dramatically.  For example Antarctic ice shelves tend to melt slowly 
>for a long time then suddenly collapse catastrophically. A few degrees 
>surface temperature in the Gulf makes the difference between a Cat 2 
>and a Cat 5 hurricane.  Methane in the Oceans might be the same type of

>system, which if it snaps could trigger runaway global warming. In that

>case you'd better invest in some beachfront property in Arkansas.
>
>There are some who argue that Global warming is inevitable, because we 
>won't change fast enough, so get used to it and figure out how to cope.
>I don't hold to that theory.  However, we keep talking about this like 
>it is the end of the world.  It isn't, it's just change on a large 
>scale.  Yes, we'd lose species, flood some coastal cities, and have to 
>get used to different weather pattterns, and all of those things are 
>bad and uncomfortable and I would rather avoid them.  However, even if 
>the worst predictions for global warming happen, our grandchildren will

>still be here cussing their grandparents for being so shortsighted, but

>still living out life just fine. Between Cat 5 hurricanes.
>
>
>--Lawrence Lile
>
>
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