[Greenbuilding] [-SPAM-] Re: [BULK] Re: underfloor insulation R-values &materials

Sat Dec 2 04:07:36 CST 2006

Hi, Lawrence

In the UK, (England and Wales) it is mandatory to provide sound insulation
between all bedrooms and habitable bedrooms (100mm 4" mineral fibre quilt or
equivelent = 40 dB reduction) and any other room. All
toilets/en-suites/bathrooms have to have 'anti-flush' noise reductions.
Party Wall insualtion requires 55db of sound reduction. This has been in the
building code (buiulding regulations) since March 2002.
I totally agree you only really need to insualte the external walls, the
ground floor, and suspended floor (with a crawl space under it) and the
roof/ceilings, of a thermally conditioned volume. However, the UK codes (and
the 25 other nations codes in the EU) do require large buildings to be zoned
at 100m2 (1000 sq ft) floor areas. So you would consider insualtion walls
between these heating zones.

More at www.labc-services.co.uk www.abe.org.uk www.communities.gov.uk under
"Building Regulations". The whole England and Wales Building "code" guidance
books, can be downloaded free from the www.planningportal.gov.uk

John S. Bone, MBEng, BSc Hons
Principal Building Control Surveyor (Building Code Engineer & Inspector)
Englands, UK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Lile" <LLile at projsolco.com>
To: "John Messerschmidt" <john at ducecc.com>;
<greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [-SPAM-] Re: [Greenbuilding] [BULK] Re: underfloor insulation
R-values &materials

> It won't save one BTU of energy to insulate between floors if the two
floors are the same temparature. Heat loss doesn't occur because of volume,
heat loss happens across exterior walls because of temperature differences.
>
> This myth of "heating volume" is one of the most pervasive myths about
heat transfer.  After carefully calculating I needed a 1.5 ton AC unit for
an extremely efficient, but large, house, an HVAC contractor told me "We use
3 tons for a house of that volume."  He could not be convinced that heat
flow doesn't go to volume, but goes from hot to cold.
>
> That being said, many people insulate between floors for noise control.
Bedroom above a kitchen?  Good place for a little insulation.  Party wall
between two tenants?  Definitely a good place for insulation.  Npisy
teenager bedroom?  Another good spot.
>
> Also, if you are able to shut down whole rooms, and insulate the interior
walls from the rest of the house, you might be able to save some energy,
because you are effectively doubling the insulation between you and the
outdoors.  I can't imagine this would be very cost effective though.
>
>
> --Lawrence Lile
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org on behalf of John
Messerschmidt
> Sent: Fri 12/1/2006 1:07 PM
> To: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: [BULK] Re: [Greenbuilding] underfloor insulation R-values &
materials
>
>
>
> Speaking of floor joists, does it make any sense to insulate between
floors
> inside the building envelope?  There are 8" of empty space there, that I
> would rather not heat, but with the cost of insulation, maybe the
> cost/benefits wouldn't be worth it.  There are also noise considerations.
> Any ideas or comments?
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Lile
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:50 PM
> To: Alan Abrams; Don Jennings
> Cc: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] underfloor insulation R-values & materials
>
> I'd keep the cellulose out of basements.  It loves moisture, and looks
> like a good platform to launch the next wave of mutant molds from Mars.
> Only use it where it can dry out.  They don't even recommend using vapor
> retarders with it!
>
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
> Senior Electrical Engineer
> Project Solutions Engineering
> 573-443-7100 X 221
> 573-999-3450 Cell
> 1390 Boone Industrial Dr Suite 200
> Columbia MO 65202
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Abrams [mailto:alan at abramsdesignbuild.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:28 PM
> To: 'Don Jennings'; Lawrence Lile
> Cc: greenbuilding at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: RE: [Greenbuilding] underfloor insulation R-values & materials
>
> >
> > Wet Spray cellulose is your friend.  Cheap, 100% recycled, always
> fills
> > up gaps and odd shapes unlike Batts, you can spray it upside down into
> > an overhead space (usually through a screen that looks like mosquito
> > net)  It will fill up any shape space, and it is better R value than
> > most of the alternatives.  The only thing better is biobased (made
> from
> > soybeans) foam, but the price is steep.
>
> LL-
>
> I agree with you in principle about the use of cellulose.  Please
> consider
> this, however:
>
> We've been insulating existing basements by furring out the perimeter
> walls
> with 1 5/8" metal studs held 2" off the wall, and foaming (with icynene
> or a
> clone) between and behind the studs.  If there's a moisture problem we
> install a conventional subslab perim drain and line the walls with
> enkdrain
> (down to the subdrain) before patching the slab and installing furring.
>
> What do you think about substituting cellulose in a case like that?
>
> Cheers-
> -AA
>
>
>
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